Author Topic: B/RB cylinder head valve heights  (Read 2915 times)

Offline 67Vette427

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B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« on: July 29, 2006 - 04:29:35 PM »
Somebody told me that if you run a straight edge over the top of the valves stems that they should all be even. I checked a set of 915 heads I have and all the intake valves are a 1/4" or so higher than the exhaust valves. I think that's how they should be and not all even, correct?

Thanks
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Offline ShelbyDogg

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2006 - 10:00:34 PM »
I never saw them that far apart but that doesn't mean that they are bad. Maybe somebody had some Hardened exhaust seats installed and the company that did the valve job didn't think it mattered.  Is the other head the same way?
Rob

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Offline 67Vette427

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2006 - 10:53:48 PM »
Yes Rob, both the same. I never even thought about it or noticed it until somebody said something about it. They looked the same until you get the straight edge across the top.
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Offline ShelbyDogg

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2006 - 11:02:16 PM »
I never did the straight egde thing with any of my heads but most of mine are close enough that I never noticed. Maybe some over eager machine shop cut too deep for the intake's valve job so they are sunk into the head and look taller. In my '915s I had everything opened up for the 2.14s and 1.81s so everything was even. If you go that route have hardened seats installed.

Let's see if Chryco has seen this before.  Neil?
Rob

3 E-bodies, Megasquirt-1v3.0, Edelbrock Pro-Flo-1, Holley C950, FAST EZ-EFI; say no to carbs...yes to throttle bodies

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Offline 67Vette427

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2006 - 01:27:08 AM »
I know he put the hardened seats in these 915 heads and he also did it on the 71 383 heads I'm running on the Cuda. I never looked at those and that motor runs fine. It kind of makes me curious though.
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Offline ShelbyDogg

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2006 - 08:38:08 AM »
If everything was installed correctly, he would have adjusted the installed height for the springs with shims. If the Intake valves are sunk deeper into the head you'll see more shims under the intake springs.  Maybe the new intake valve stems were just longer overall or the new exhaust valve were shorter . If that was the case, it could affect the contact point of the rocker arm. As long as it isn't too extreme it should be okay.
Rob

3 E-bodies, Megasquirt-1v3.0, Edelbrock Pro-Flo-1, Holley C950, FAST EZ-EFI; say no to carbs...yes to throttle bodies

My Pace Car restoration thread:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=44869.0


Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2006 - 11:36:11 PM »
I have often seen this , when hardened seats are installed the machinist "should" be very careful to set the seat at stock new height so the exhuast valves with hard seat "should" be lower , as the seat recesses into the head the valve will become taller at the the tip  , generally the machist will trim the top of the valve tip down to even the heights , if this is not done the hyd lifter can adjust somewhat , mechanical will obviously adjust to different heights

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Offline moper

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2006 - 05:28:01 AM »
 :iagree:


It should have been corrected at the shop. Chances are, they used a set of stock size valves, on a set of heads that had a valve job or 2 on them already. 1/4" is a ton when you are talking installed heights for springs, and rocker geometry. I always have 2.14s installed for that reason. It's not much bigger, but it puts the seat angle back where it should be in relation to the factory spec. If you have to live with it, and have either a solid cam with terrible rocker geometry, or running a hydraulic cam, you could figure the correct length for the intake side push rods, and order shorter ones for those 8. Just be sure there is enough shim under the intake valve spting to keep the spring pressures correct. Lack of shim=lack of spring tension.

Offline Follicly Challenged

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2006 - 06:35:20 PM »
ALL VALVE TIPS EVEN !

Damn, I forget the number !

Now I remember !

The Valve "tip" should extend up "out of the head" between 2.090" to 2.130", from the valve spring seat pocket.

This assumes the heads have NOT been machined excessively for oversize Valve Springs which increases the number, or, that the Valve seats haven't been "ground to death" causing the Valve tip to "stick out" the top of the head past this range.
A range of about .040" for correct lifter preload.
Yes they'll run @ 2.150", or as "tight" as 2.075", and the lifters will still provide adequate preload, but when approaching these numbers, measure and insure that the nominal quench dimension, from the "machine target" in the chamber,(flat cast spot beside the plug), to the flat of the head deck, is no shorter than .095". .100-.110" is better.

Am I making sense here ? 

Offline 67Vette427

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2006 - 09:55:45 PM »
It does make sense. I should have double checked it after he finished them up. He must have missed that part of machinist 101 when installing hardened seats  :clueless:   Thanks
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Offline Follicly Challenged

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2006 - 10:21:32 AM »
I goofed !  I gave you the nominal quench distance on an "open chamber" head, NOT the "machine target" height, THEN, I noticed you're using a closed chamber head !

Anyways, Valve tips "even" and within the 2.090" to 2.130" range.

Apologies,

Offline 67Vette427

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2006 - 02:34:21 AM »
If they were off quite a bit would it cause backfires consistently or every once in a while? He did another set for me and that motor runs good but back fires every once in a while.
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Offline Follicly Challenged

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2006 - 08:26:49 AM »
Could be either, or, not related at all.  Not trying to cloud the issue, but lack of correct lifter preload(bottoming out) and no seat pressure, might manifest itself as an intermittent backfire, but it would probably also require a "change" in stociometric air/fuel outside of the normal.

Does this "intermittent" backfire occur anywhere, or time in particular ? ie; on decel ?

How long/far have you driven this other vehicle ? Surely, lack of correct lifter preload(seat pressure), will cause a prematurely burnt valve. Exhaust Valves especially, disperse their absorbed heat, through contact and pressure to the head.
Think of if you lightly touched a hot iron with your finger, now, "press it hard" to the hot iron for the same time. See what I mean, more "heat transfer" and a really "****ed up fingy" !

Also, There is a range on either end of stociometric, where air/fuel burns "fast and erratic" either rich or lean. Hence, timing setup done one day, works great, then the barometer drops and presto ! CRAP ! All because most carbs utilize an emulsion tube/fuel jet/air metering system, sensitive to air pressure, hence, they make tools called "timing lights" for "suggested", and more "forgiving" timing specs.
Power timing works great too, but really, when done with the engine in gear like it's "apposta", all we're doing is eliminating the Timing chain slop by loading the engine.
I always P/time WITH a timing light, and the engine in gear. Why not use all the tools available ?

Long story short, need more info on your backfire !  May, or, Maynot, be related to tip hts.
 

Offline 67Vette427

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2006 - 09:52:02 AM »
This motor was just put together. It idles fine and actually runs good and smooth. I have to go pull the valve covers and rocker arms to see if he didn't align the valves after doing the hardened seats. When it backfires, it does it on intial acceleration. Its done it a few times but it seems when the air/fuel mixture is weak. The Holly I had on it wasn't working well and it did it more often.
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Offline Follicly Challenged

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Re: B/RB cylinder head valve heights
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2006 - 11:21:25 AM »
Inital Accelleration, the old "lean pop" thing !
Add some squirter to the primary side ?