A518 Overdrive Questions

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    Author Topic: A518 Overdrive Questions  (Read 148424 times)

    Offline tactransman

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #225 on: October 15, 2008 - 02:16:22 PM »
    Quote from: ntstlgl1970 on October 15, 2008 - 02:03:58 PM
    I think the main thing is that no one is going to use a 518 just for racing, for me I'll take the performance hit if it means I can comfortably drive the car longer distances. To drive from Sacramento CA to Reno NV (Summit Store)takes you over highway 80/Donner Pass (7000 feet). With my current setup (727, 28" tire, 3.91's) I turn between 3100-3400 on the freeway to keep up with traffic (around 68-70 mph) it gets really old really fast.



     :iagree:   That is why a 518 is going in my Chally. :grinyes:


    Quote from: 71chally416 on October 15, 2008 - 01:52:53 PM

    Why do you suppose so many GM racers use the Powerglide instead of the much stronger TH350 or TH400? Not because it only has 2 gears and is inherently weak. I remember it being a joke back in the 70's because they commonly failed, even behind 6 cylinder engines. We called them "Powerslides". I never would have guessed they would one day be the predominant automatic racing transmission in bracket racing. It simply uses the least amount of hp of any automatic.

    They usually only recommend going to a powerglide in a car weighing 3000 lbs or less I assume do to the the missing gear ratio to help get the weight of the car going. A powerglide in stock form leaves alot to be desired,you basically have to replace everything in it to hold up to H.P. (I think you already mentioned that in another thread) My customers are usually normal racers that want a transmission to last 2 to 3 seasons without a failure and it is cheaper and easier to do with a 727. Most all of them are bracket racers so the faster they go,the sooner the other guy in the other lane gets to leave any way. If you get to the big block stage,then you have to adapt the 904 to bolt up to it since they did not make a big block 904.
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    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #226 on: October 15, 2008 - 03:43:43 PM »
    There is no doubt the 727 is a stronger tranny. It's probably even overkill for a mild 318/360. The 904 will hold up fine in that application, and get better perfomance and mileage too. If Mileage is your real goal nothing will get better mileage than a 5 or 6 speed stick in high gear. :2thumbs:
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    Offline 422STROKER

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #227 on: October 15, 2008 - 06:22:50 PM »
    I didn't notice much of a change if any from my 904 to 727 swap.  I had roughly the same stall on both converters.  The 904 was a bit tired but shifted firm enough.  The best I managed with the 904 was low-mid 13's and at 105-6mph.  The 727 was a little faster at lower 13's(probably me) and was the same mph.  When I messed with the timing a bit I picked up 3-4mph more and 4 tenths with the 727.  Not a 100% back to back but pretty close.

    For all out racing the 904 is better.  But for a street driven car I'd give up the tenth or two for longevity since I can't afford to rebuild/freshen a trans every 5 years or so.

    Tom
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    Offline Carlwalski

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #228 on: October 15, 2008 - 10:53:01 PM »



    Holy crap - I can't believe this thread is still going lol.
    If this thread doesn't answer all E-Body/A518 questions, nothing will. :grinno:
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    Offline bigfoot

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #229 on: October 15, 2008 - 11:44:30 PM »
    It ought to be pinned or archived or something.
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    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #230 on: October 16, 2008 - 01:05:43 AM »
    Also for reference in this thread (from the TCI website)>

    TCI 727 and "Streetfighter" convertor = 171lbs
    TCI 904 and "Streetfighter" convertor = 140lbs
     
    31 lbs difference, the majority of which is internal rotating mass. Not a whole lot of difference in the weights of the bare aluminum cases.

    A good example of "parasitic" loss is the common belt driven water pump. Not counting the fan, a pulley driven water pump takes about 6 fwhp to operate and as we know it can easily be turned on a motor with one finger and it's probably a pound or less total in rotating mass with the pulley and impeller. You can than do the math what 20-25 extra lbs of rotating mass can do to your RWHP.   
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    Offline PlumCrazyChris

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #231 on: October 16, 2008 - 09:15:10 AM »
    Carlwalski, this thread has a life of its own.    It no longer belongs to you....it belongs to the world........        :)

    I agree, it does need to be archived.  I suppose the photos will not last and will be purged at some point.   I've put together my own files on this swap from this thead and others, but this one is pretty comprehensive.   I'm really suprised more folks haven't done this already.  I guess no one drives ebody enough for it to matter that much. 

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    Offline heminut

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #232 on: October 16, 2008 - 06:39:27 PM »
    Quote from: 71chally416 on October 16, 2008 - 01:05:43 AM
    Also for reference in this thread (from the TCI website)>

    TCI 727 and "Streetfighter" convertor = 171lbs
    TCI 904 and "Streetfighter" convertor = 140lbs
     
    31 lbs difference, the majority of which is internal rotating mass. Not a whole lot of difference in the weights of the bare aluminum cases.

    I couldn't find where you got that info at the TCI website, but there is no way those converters weigh that much! Maybe 17.1 lbs. and 14.0 lbs, which would only be a 3.1 lbs. difference.
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    Offline thedodgeboys

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #233 on: October 16, 2008 - 08:20:45 PM »
    Quote from: 71chally416 on October 16, 2008 - 01:05:43 AM
    Also for reference in this thread (from the TCI website)>

    TCI 727 and "Streetfighter" convertor = 171lbs
    TCI 904 and "Streetfighter" convertor = 140lbs
     
    Quote from: 392heminut on October 16, 2008 - 06:39:27 PM
    I couldn't find where you got that info at the TCI website, but there is no way those converters weigh that much! Maybe 17.1 lbs. and 14.0 lbs, which would only be a 3.1 lbs. difference.

    I think you missed the word and; converter and 727 = 171 lbs.  :thumbsup:
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    Offline heminut

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #234 on: October 16, 2008 - 08:25:07 PM »
    Quote from: thedodgeboys on October 16, 2008 - 08:20:45 PM
    I think you missed the word and; converter and 727 = 171 lbs.  :thumbsup:

    Duoh! I sure did! :walkaway:
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    Offline Carlwalski

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #235 on: October 16, 2008 - 09:13:39 PM »
    Quote from: shelbydogg on October 16, 2008 - 05:57:56 PM
    I moved my pics to my post in the 1st page, and deleted a bunch of my nonsense posts. If this will be archived, some of you reading this will have to delete your replies also.

    I agree but in terms of off topic stuff it's not too bad. Other forums have a  lot of "nonsense" and when you really want to find something flicking through 17, 25 or even 100 pages isn't too bad. Spend 10 minutes going through it to find the info needed is all good, that's just me though.
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    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #236 on: October 16, 2008 - 10:14:04 PM »
    727 tranny = 140 lbs shipping weight
    http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TC&Product_Code=111100

    727 Steetfighter vert = 28.5 shipping weight
    http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TC&Product_Code=142200

    I probably erroneously clicked on this one - 32lbs
    http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TC&Product_Code=142222

    727 & Vert = 168.5 lbs (My bad - I was 1.5lbs off)

    904 = 112 lbs shipping weight (the TCI PG is 110lbs)
    http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TC&Product_Code=111300

    904 Streetfighter vert = 27lbs shipping weight
    http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TC&Product_Code=142300

    904 + Vert = 112lbs + 27lbs = 139lbs total (My bad again...1 lb off)

    29.5 lbs difference.  

    I used TCI because I've heard them endorsed on this site and they list shipping weights. I couldn't find tranny weights listed anywhere else. That might include the shipping box or skid, but the difference in weight should remain the same. I'm sure my 9 1/2" Dynamic vert weighs less than the TCI. I have a few other 904 verts in my basement (A Turbo Action 10" and a stocker) but no 727 verts so I have no basis for comparison here. Even if the 727/904 verts weigh the same (they don't) the tranny alone is 28lbs heavier.

    And for those interested in the 518LU> 145 lbs
    http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TC&Product_Code=113000

    "Breakaway" Convertor for 518 = 30lbs (No streetfighter 10" listed)
    http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TC&Product_Code=141250

    175lbs total, or 36lbs more than the 904, with most of it rotating behind the crankshaft. That's probably all anyone needs to know if they are considering this swap. They won't need to wonder where their ET went when they're done.  :2thumbs:

        





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    Offline tactransman

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #237 on: October 17, 2008 - 09:21:11 AM »
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    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #238 on: October 17, 2008 - 11:34:35 AM »
    I was gonna mention that.  :faint:

    If you have 904 and 727 cases laying around the shop you should throw they on a scale so we can nail down the real difference in mass.
    Anything inside that doesn't rotate can be included.
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    Offline ntstlgl1970

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    Re: A518 Overdrive Questions
    « Reply #239 on: October 17, 2008 - 02:08:17 PM »
    I'll weigh some stuff, that 518 weight is wrong, much much heavier than a 727.
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