Best crate motor?

Author Topic: Best crate motor?  (Read 7961 times)

Offline falcon50flier

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2006 - 10:46:59 AM »
don't overlook the "builder crate" option as you are usually competitive with the Mopar crate for what you get, and you get a blueprint card and builder to stand behind it (warranties vary!).

John Arruzza, Tim Banning, Richard Nedbal, Bob Mazzolini, Larry Shephard, and others can build you a great hemi and you'll get a motor setup (cam, induction) specifically for your application and driving style. You should also look into Chenoweth Racing "block in a bag" program if you have a local balance and blueprint shop that will build your hemi a la carte.
70 Challenger convertible
518 cid Hemi, TF727, 3.73 Dana 60




Offline Blackcuda

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2006 - 10:53:14 AM »
don't overlook the "builder crate" option as you are usually competitive with the Mopar crate for what you get, and you get a blueprint card and builder to stand behind it (warranties vary!).

John Arruzza, Tim Banning, Richard Nedbal, Bob Mazzolini, Larry Shephard, and others can build you a great hemi and you'll get a motor setup (cam, induction) specifically for your application and driving style. You should also look into Chenoweth Racing "block in a bag" program if you have a local balance and blueprint shop that will build your hemi a la carte.
I would like a solid 500hp Hemi street motor, what do think these guys would charge?

Offline Ornamental

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2006 - 10:58:04 AM »
don't overlook the "builder crate" option as you are usually competitive with the Mopar crate for what you get, and you get a blueprint card and builder to stand behind it (warranties vary!).

John Arruzza, Tim Banning, Richard Nedbal, Bob Mazzolini, Larry Shephard, and others can build you a great hemi and you'll get a motor setup (cam, induction) specifically for your application and driving style. You should also look into Chenoweth Racing "block in a bag" program if you have a local balance and blueprint shop that will build your hemi a la carte.
Any chance that some of these guys would lower themselves to bulid a big inch small block?
I only see great hemi builders being mentioned all the time... :walkaway:
Panther Pink '72 Challenger Rallye.
Grey '70 Challenger R/T

-There are two kinds of pedestrians: The quick and the dead.

***Per Arne***

Offline falcon50flier

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2006 - 10:59:15 AM »
Keep in mind 500 hp is a mild motor for these guys.
Arruzza shows a 500 hp 426 motor for 13,995 on my data sheet that is a little over a year old. Expect its higher, and I'm not sure on his block supply for these (he may be keeping original bore iron "non-megablocks" for his 511s)
70 Challenger convertible
518 cid Hemi, TF727, 3.73 Dana 60

Offline falcon50flier

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2006 - 11:06:14 AM »
Ornamental, the best small block deal I've seen lately was an Indy package they put together - if I remember 426" and 600 hp. Less than $15K. But it was a race gas motor. Herb McCandless was in their booth at Mopars ot the Strip and told some great stories about its development. For pump gas, they have a number of LA based packages - for around $10K you can get a screamer.
70 Challenger convertible
518 cid Hemi, TF727, 3.73 Dana 60

Offline Blackcuda

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2006 - 11:32:00 AM »
Ornamental, the best small block deal I've seen lately was an Indy package they put together - if I remember 426" and 600 hp. Less than $15K. But it was a race gas motor. Herb McCandless was in their booth at Mopars ot the Strip and told some great stories about its development. For pump gas, they have a number of LA based packages - for around $10K you can get a screamer.
Do you have there number or web address? I'm getting excited. :woohoo:

Offline falcon50flier

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2006 - 08:17:50 PM »
70 Challenger convertible
518 cid Hemi, TF727, 3.73 Dana 60

Offline Ornamental

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2006 - 10:20:46 PM »
falcon50flier, it's much appreciated!

Now, this seems interesting to me!
408”- 415" A Street Master
450 HP@5400 RPM, 450 Torque@3500 RPM

Price: $8995.  More like 12 000$ to me after shipping and customs, i guess.
Worth considering though. No matter what i do, it's gonna cost me.
I really hope my tax return comes without any nasty surprises.

But then the 402 Mopar Performance crate is 435 HP (No idea about RPM), and 457 Torque@ 4500   
At around $6000, while being 1000 RPM higher up with the max torque, it's considerably more affordable, but then there's the issue about the build quality.

Good thing that i'm already bald, otherwise this could've been nasty for my hair. :pullinghair:
Panther Pink '72 Challenger Rallye.
Grey '70 Challenger R/T

-There are two kinds of pedestrians: The quick and the dead.

***Per Arne***

Offline matt63

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2006 - 06:31:50 PM »
falcon50flier, it's much appreciated!

Now, this seems interesting to me!
408”- 415" A Street Master
450 HP@5400 RPM, 450 Torque@3500 RPM

Price: $8995.  More like 12 000$ to me after shipping and customs, i guess.
Worth considering though. No matter what i do, it's gonna cost me.
I really hope my tax return comes without any nasty surprises.

But then the 402 Mopar Performance crate is 435 HP (No idea about RPM), and 457 Torque@ 4500   
At around $6000, while being 1000 RPM higher up with the max torque, it's considerably more affordable, but then there's the issue about the build quality.

Good thing that i'm already bald, otherwise this could've been nasty for my hair. :pullinghair:

One of the things you are paying for on most crate engines is a new block, heads, rods, crank, etc.  This is why building your own motor can be done for less if you are so inclined (through your local engine builder).  Plus you get to chose all of the components.
Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD

Offline moper

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2006 - 06:36:51 AM »
After touching an Indy crate engine, I'd advise to get one built somewhere. This one still has issues getting the power "as advertised" on multiple dynos, had a factory leak, had a defective oil filter (like, an O ring hanging out of it) installed, and was shipped with the break in oil still in it. And yes, they dyno'd it with that crud in the oil and the bad filter too. Also, the parts used were good, but VERY pricey. an exact copy could be made buying thier parts for less. And a better performaer could be built using other parts for 20% less. When it's a $10K bill, that's significant. But it does say "indy" on the valve covers. Sometimes you dotn want the hassle of choosing the parts. Which is fine. But many builders can put an engine together with the right parts to do what you want. You're not asking for much really, and $7K seems a tad high. A complete, dyno'd 408 with intake, carb and ignition, making 450hp and 500tq runs about $6500. Without the dyno, that's closer to $5700. The more exotic the requiements, the more $$. Even a std 360 can make 425hp and 460tq with a hydraulic cam on pump gas. That would be closer to $4900 without a dyno test. Also take note, many places now say "X horsepower..." but they wont dyno YOUR engine. They use desktop dyno software, or they build a copy of a previous engine. That's a big difference. I want my engines to at least reach the customer's goal. a desktop dyno wont break in the cam for you, set timing, and stuff. With the real dyno..you have the result on video, and the paper to prove it.

Offline matt63

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2006 - 06:08:07 PM »
I built my engine last winter. I found that I could buy the parts cheaper than my engine machinist/builder was going to sell them to me for so there is alot of savings here.  The drawback is that if the engine builder supplies the parts and a problem arises, they will deal with it (hopefully) while I had to pay for those out of my own pocket($1000 worth).

Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD

Offline moper

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2006 - 07:07:42 AM »
I built my engine last winter. I found that I could buy the parts cheaper than my engine machinist/builder was going to sell them to me for so there is alot of savings here.  The drawback is that if the engine builder supplies the parts and a problem arises, they will deal with it (hopefully) while I had to pay for those out of my own pocket($1000 worth).



And that's the expense that the savings cost you. Each person has to decide whether or not it's an acceptable risk for themselves. I pay whatever my shop charges me for work and parts. Because I expect the result to be exactly what I told them to do. They have to make money, or they wont be around for me to yell at :bigsmile:... It also means if something is off, or is wrong, it's thier problem. I'm not mailing stuff back to Summit, or calling tech lines wonderring why the ARP stud set is short two studs and when they can ship it, and then paying air freight because the car cant wait. (sound familiar?..lol) The upside? The shop didnt do a ton of Mopar stuff before me, so generally, I  tell them where to go to get the stuff..lol.

Offline falcon50flier

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2006 - 09:49:56 AM »
I heard last week from a very reputable hemi builder that the 426 "water block" (not siamesed mega-block) supply chain is again reliable and that the blocks he's seen have all sonic checked OK without core shift problems. (His shop still fully machines everything to blueprint specs, of course.) You should be able to get a "builder spec" hemi from any of the shops I mention above at near Mopar DC crate pricing, with cam, heads, and other tweaks to your specs.
70 Challenger convertible
518 cid Hemi, TF727, 3.73 Dana 60

Offline matt63

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2006 - 11:56:48 AM »
I heard last week from a very reputable hemi builder that the 426 "water block" (not siamesed mega-block) supply chain is again reliable and that the blocks he's seen have all sonic checked OK without core shift problems. (His shop still fully machines everything to blueprint specs, of course.) You should be able to get a "builder spec" hemi from any of the shops I mention above at near Mopar DC crate pricing, with cam, heads, and other tweaks to your specs.
I heard that the short supply came about when Mopar had to change foundries.  The new foundry had to make changes before they could start producing the hemi blocks again.  I think this is old news though and that they are in production once again.  Interestingly enough, the article said they had already made more crate hemi engines than were produced originally from '66-'71.
Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD

Offline falcon50flier

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Re: Best crate motor?
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2006 - 03:16:33 PM »
Matt - it is old news that the crate hemi contract and Hemi block foundry contract were renegotiated due to poor quality. This board and moparts.com and allpar.com have a lot of history on the subject.

That the new foundry still can't reliably cast new mega-blocks with consistent wall thickness and bore locations, along with the fact that new 528 crates have apparently been produced with these blocks, means that there has got to be some more quality problems to come for the DC mega-block crates..
70 Challenger convertible
518 cid Hemi, TF727, 3.73 Dana 60