440 Issues

Author Topic: 440 Issues  (Read 12584 times)

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2006 - 04:23:51 PM »
Doug,

  I switched from the Edelbrock performer intake to the Holly street dom. that Chryco suggested. I have the same cam specs as you(yes, it's BIG). It helped.  :thumbsup: I have a spacer under my carb. with a gasket each side, so no leaks.  :lol: I like the sound of your 2400 stall converter for your 3:55's. If your car is still a dog after this, then maybe the carb. needs some tinkering.  :dunno:

  Mike

Mike

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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2006 - 04:46:16 PM »
there is an article in th earchive on cam design
 with the high compression & bigger cam you really Need to get the engine above 3000 before putting load on it or you will not solve the pinging problem & you still will not be able to chirp your tires , the combo you have is poorly matched , you either need to drop the compression & change the cam to use it at lower RPM   or use the engine at higher RPM   , the engine will be fine up to 6000 unless ti was poorly machined
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006 - 05:08:17 PM by Chryco Psycho »

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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2006 - 04:48:14 PM »
a 290* cam is generally rated for 2600-6200 rpm btw  & the M1 intake is rated for idle to 5500 or so & the performer is idle to 5000 rpm
 I would use a minimum 3000 converter & rev the engine to 6500 with the Street Dom intake & advance the timing up
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006 - 04:52:13 PM by Chryco Psycho »

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Offline 440Charger

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2006 - 04:56:04 PM »
I found this beast: http://www.holley.com/types/Chrysler_Big_Block_%E2%80%93_Carbureted.asp

So you guys are saying I should go to a single-plane.....my understanding is that a single-plane will kill my torque.  I'm afraid to go past 5500, don't want to blow my engine.  I thought that was within range of a dual plane.

Next Tuesday I'm going to have somone try to estimate my compression.  Trying to find the piston part# and gasket part# now.  We really think we're below 10:1, but I guess we'll find out soon.  Now that I think of it, I couldn't even tell you how much our heads were shaved.... :swear:

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know!

- Doug
I love my 440...but it's not loving me back...yet

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2006 - 04:59:12 PM »
piston # should be L2295F for the domed TRW / Speed Pro piston . with open chamber heads & a .035 thick gasket & no milling is approx 10.4:1 , milling / shaving the heads or the steel shim gasket will increase this # which explains why the engine pings with more than 28* of timing
 which head castings are on the engine ?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006 - 05:06:30 PM by Chryco Psycho »

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Offline 440Charger

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2006 - 05:14:44 PM »
Ahh good info Chryco - thx.  As soon as I get the part#'s I'll post those up. 

Regarding heads, not sure.  I just went out to look but couldn't find the #'s on the heads.  The heads are from a '78 440 new yorker.  No porting, just a valve job.

The pistons are not domed.  The guys that helped us build the engine said they were raised....does that make sense? 

I love my 440...but it's not loving me back...yet

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2006 - 05:18:42 PM »
78 heads should be 452 castings with open chambers
 there are 2 types of piston , the flat top 6pack style & the raised/ domed L2295F I mentioned above

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Offline 440Charger

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2006 - 05:29:18 PM »
Just got the piston part#: TRW Part# L2355-F30
I love my 440...but it's not loving me back...yet

Offline MyMopar

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2006 - 05:55:50 PM »
440Charger let me jump in on the intake also. 
I pulled the 440 out of my Charger and dropped it in the Challenger. With the Eddie Performer I couldn't close my hood properly (thanks to Neil I got that sorted out) but he suggested switching to the Holley Street Dom. mainly for clearance issues.
Fast forward, I picked up the intake at the swap areea in Carlisle.  Installed it with the Felpro intake gasket set that blocks the heat riser and comes with paper gaskets for better sealing. (Fel 1214 or 1215?)  In any case, after installing this manifold my engine really woke up.  From idle to red line I got power, tire burning power.  From 20 mph if I stomp on it I can light the tires up for a good 300 feet all the way into third gear.  Chirps every gear also but that is inpart to getting the right combo on the motor and upgrading the transmission kickdown to a cable that is lightyears better in response and adjustability.
Some people around here really know their sh1t and by far any advice Chryco has given has always been for the better.  :2thumbs:  :burnout:
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Offline 440Charger

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2006 - 06:27:39 PM »
Ok so your post makes me want to go buy a street dom now  :jumping:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&catalogIdentifier=Jegs_Direct&categoryId=15925&parentCategoryId=11937

So you went from a dual plan to a single plane...sounds like you're happy with that.  People (not in these forums) keep telling me dual plane is for street and single plane is for high reving race....arg. 

Do you have ported heads?  Mine aren't so maybe I wouldn't see as much difference....what do you think?

Ok, newbie question here: what is the heat riser in the intake manifold? why do I want to mess with it?

- Doug
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006 - 06:44:31 PM by 440Charger »
I love my 440...but it's not loving me back...yet

Offline 440Charger

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2006 - 07:35:08 PM »
78 heads should be 452 castings with open chambers

I forgot to ask, Chryco - what does 452 castings mean?  Is that a good thing?  From what I've read in these forums closed chamber gets better compression.  Do you like these heads for a perf street 3800lbs 440 car?
I love my 440...but it's not loving me back...yet

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2006 - 11:01:09 PM »
Hey My Mopar
I`m glad ti worked out well , I bet you can close the hood now too  :2thumbs:

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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2006 - 11:09:50 PM »
The heat riser is a passage under the intake where hot exhuast passes through to warm the intake to stop the carb icing / freezing in cold moist weather , these cars are now used as toys & driven in nice weather for the most part so ther is no need to have the exhaust warming the intake & making things much hotter than they need to be , so the 1215 intake gasket blocks the port to keep the intake cooler
 452 heads were used 75-78 & are an open chamber head , they are decent but all 440 heads really flow about the same unported
 now I am puzzled ... if you have the 6 pack flat top piston your compression should be under 10:1 so pinging should not be an issue , tuning now comes into play , are you jetted to lean , what color are the spark plugs , what plugs are you running ? possibly a hotter plug ?, is the engine using oil ?
a looser converter , better intake with blocked heat crossover & a slower advance curve will all make a big difference

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Offline moper

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2006 - 07:39:57 AM »
I hate to rock the boat, but I dont see much wrong with what you have except the timing curve in the dist, and maybe too high a static ratio for that cam. The SD is a great all around intkae, and would have been my 2nd choice. First choice is the Performer RPM. The SD is a smaller port single plane, with a med sized plunem. The M1 is larger port, larger plenum, and wouldnt have even been in the running if I was putting the package together. The cam is fine, the pistons are ok. Mayeb too much static, but I'd bet the over heat problem was the lean and retarded timing, and the lack of power is the timing and carb. The Demons can be a bear to tune, and BG has good tech guys, but you need to know how carbs work before you can really work with them. There's a couple books on that. Buy one. The MSD dist has 8 possible curves soley based on the springs they provide. Total centrifical is done with a bushing. He put in the 20° bushing, and I'd wager has the two light springs in it. You should be running a heavy silver, and a blue for springs. That will slow down the advance so it doesnt go into pinging as early. Total is what the engine likes, and can take, in that order. If it pings after adding the spacer gaskets, you'll have to address the static compression issue. I doubt it will, but a slower advance curve helps cars with pump gas, higher rear end gears, and stock or low stall convertors. It should pull and run fine iwht teh stock convertor, but it may "thunk" into gear wehn going into drive. Instead of replacing new stuff, try sciencing the setup out first. If there were only one or two good parts for every application, everyone would have the same thing. You can make what you have run well, and then if it's beyond physics to run on pump gas, you can make a change. I dont think it will be an issue if it's all sorted out properly.

Offline MyMopar

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Re: 440 Issues
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2006 - 08:16:27 AM »
Ok so your post makes me want to go buy a street dom now  :jumping:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&catalogIdentifier=Jegs_Direct&categoryId=15925&parentCategoryId=11937

So you went from a dual plan to a single plane...sounds like you're happy with that.  People (not in these forums) keep telling me dual plane is for street and single plane is for high reving race....arg. 

Do you have ported heads?  Mine aren't so maybe I wouldn't see as much difference....what do you think?

Ok, newbie question here: what is the heat riser in the intake manifold? why do I want to mess with it?

- Doug


I have factory heads that have been worked a bit, but not a drastic port.  Larger valves mainly and the combustion chamber cleaned up, intake and exhaust ports smoothed out also.  That was all I could do in the time I had.  Good luck as I'm sure once you get the gaskets in on the carb, and work the timing a bit you will see a world of difference. 
Knowing what your compression ratio is key tough.  You can pick up a compression gauge at Sears and many auto parts stores. 
If I recall directions should come with it, but I was told to do it with the engine warmed up, remove the spark plug, disconnect the coil, crank the engine over while the carb is at WOT. Then you will know for sure.
1969 (OO===]|[===OO)
1973 (OO/=====\OO) <---SOLD
1997 (O|||||O) <---SOLD

Smoke tires, not drugs!