Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?

Author Topic: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?  (Read 10489 times)

Offline Green Drop Top

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2006 - 12:12:42 AM »
The doors were hung and adjusted BEFORE paint at the factory, typically you'll see alot of bare metal and unpainted primered areas in hidden or dificult to access areas of a factory painted car.




Offline PlumCrazy

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2006 - 01:06:01 AM »
There was no way to spray from the bottom of thecar upwards unless you were laying on the ground.


Offline PlumCrazy

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2006 - 01:23:49 AM »
Battery and Horn side of engine bay.


Offline EvilTwinATX

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2006 - 08:53:12 AM »
thanks - that helps my understand the factory painting method better. :bigsmile:

Offline Steve

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2006 - 12:50:08 PM »
A few more pieces of information...

First, the blackout was done by someone standing in a pit whilst the car rolled overhead. You can download the actual factory engineering drawing for the blackout process from the website mentioned in a previous post.

Second, seam sealer was applied to the inner fender prior to the fender being set into place. This sealer kept water/debris from coming up between the fender and inner fender.

Third, as mentioned in an earlier post, the car was assmembled and painted. This is why the fender mounting hardware and such is body color. Blackout was done after color. Note that some cars (maybe depending on year and/or color) did not have the cowl blacked-out. Also, different plants used different blackout processes (workers probably varied in what they bothered to black out). Note in the pics of the yellow '70 cuda that the core support and headlight bucket blackout wasn't very thorough. I think if you compare the pics of the yellow cuda with the engineering drawings, you'll conclude that the blackout on that car wasn't done per the instructions....probably not at all uncommon.

Fourth, as for the actual steps of painting the car in order to get a very nice result (not a completely "correct" result), I have attached a personal email exchange between myself and Resto Rick on how to best paint an E-body (assuming you aren't going the "factory correct route). I hope he doesn't mind.


Hi Steve,

The downside of painting the engine & trunk bays last is that you have to be more careful not to damage the outside paintwork as you paint of course...

Spraying the ENTIRE car including engine & trunk bays...
I did it in the past, but I can tell you it's crazy !...
way too much ground to cover and it's more difficult to control dust issues, etc.
Also you do a much better job focusing on one area at a time...
painting an engine bay while trying not to touch the flypaper-like fender in front of you
is pretty stressful...

You'll get almost as many opinions as there are painters about how to do this buuuuut... lol...
here's what I'd suggest:

1. Paint interior areas (if you plan or need to)

2. Pull the doors and paint their inside front faces.

3. Paint the cowl sides, door jamb front areas,  rear backside of fenders.

4. Reinstall & align doors.

5. Paint behind hinges on deck lid and hood. Also behind ends of header panel.

6. Install & align deck lid and hood. (If installing engine from above, I'd paint the hood off..)
   STRONGLY recommend installing from below, but that's another  novel !!

7. Mask off the engine bay and trunk compartment to prevent excess overspray on these
    areas from painting the exterior. This will save a couple hours of tedious sanding.

8. Paint the exterior including the trunk & door jambs.  I like to spray the first coat into the door jambs,
    apply second coat only on the exterior areas, then apply the third final coat into the jambs making
    the jambs the last stop to minimize overspray dulling.
    This method is more tedious because of door, etc.  handling, but will give the best results without
    masking lines.

9. To further confuse you and add more decisions... :)
    On real high end paint jobs where I'm really going for it all... I'll put down 2 coats of clear...
    wet sand that flat with 800# being careful not to cut through anywhere.  Then carefully clean it to
    remove every smear and contaminant that will show through...
    Follow that with 3 final coats.  This is how the sassy grass 71 Hemi Cuda on my website was done.
    It gives a flatter final finish and reduces shrink back.  A lot of extra work and truly a judgement call
    if it's worth it...

10. Color sand & do an initial cut buff within the first 2 days if you can... will buff much easier and the
    slight shrinkback you get will be addressed in the final buff.

11. Mask off the entire car less the trunk & engine compartments.  I use the thin masking plastic and
     basically bag the car.  Also pay particular attention to sealing off the holes at the front of the quarter
    panels and quarter window openings. Otherwise overspray from painting the trunk will find it's way all
    over the door jambs and make a hand polishing nightmare ! (Don't ask how I know..)
   Also the firewall openings need to be completely masked/sealed off from the interior side to keep
    engine bay paint overspray in check.

12. Engine bay is pretty straightforward... I like to do the back of the hood at the same time too...
     Trunk compartments suck... my least favorite area to paint for sure.
     Very difficult to see what you're doing and it's difficult to get a nice finish up front... dust control can
    be a nightmare too !!
    Both of these areas are much easier to spray with a 2 quart pressure pot...the separate gun is way
   easier to manuever and can spray in any direction without fluid loss.  As I mentioned before, reaching
    more of difficult areas like the front of the doors/ cowl sides possible.

13. Unmask and do your final exterior buffing.

There's a couple good painting videos out there aleady, but I've considered doing one exclusively for
Mopars showing the way I like to do it... ahhhh to have 8 days a week !!

Rick





On 9/12/06, Steve Hall <shall36@earthlink.net > wrote:
Hey Rick,


Thanks for the reply!

 

I really hadn't thought of painting the bays last! I see what you are saying about the fenders. I was originally going to paint the entire car while assembled. My only concern was that hitting spots like between the door and the fender (on the cowl side of things) would be tough to do. I suppose if all of the panels were primed as pieces, there should be no concerns about future rust problems and such.

 

Is it feasible to paint the ENTIRE car (including trunk and engine bay) in "one shot". That is, lay down the color and then come back and lay down the clear? I imagine getting into the trunk with the decklid on might be a bit challenging…but, that's the way they did it from the factory, correct?

 

If you were me, and you were trying to produce a very nice car (slightly over restored) with many of the factory production cues (e.g. body color bolts and hardware), what would you do?

 

Thanks!

Steve

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Kreuziger [mailto:restoemail@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 10:30 PM
To: shall36@earthlink.net
Subject: Panel Painting

 

Hey Steve,

Most of the cars I do are done completely assembled as done at the factory.. I also use a 2qt. pressure pot to give more manueverability and better access in hard-to-reach areas.
however....
for a car  where you're after the best possible door jamb finish, painting with the doors off does help.  Reinstalling the doors is tricky of course...and the bolts will have to be touched up.
I'd recommend leaving the fenders installed.

Some guys will paint the jambs , reinstall the doors and mask off the jamb before painting the exterior.  This requires very careful masking to minimize mask lines. (Not a method I care for).

Engine & trunk bay have nice clean break lines and facilitate being painted separately well.
On cars where the most original look is sought, I paint them first as originally done and let the overspray fly. 
For the pretty stuff, I usually paint the exterior first, do a initial sand & cut buff, then mask off and paint the bays.  This way you don't have any chance of overspray from the exterior paint process as you will get with spraying  in the reverse order and you get a nice slick clean finish. 
The bit of overspray from the bay painting will be addressed with final buffing.

One word of caution:
Be sure to orientate the panels as they are when installed on the car if the color is metallic.  Solid colors are not as critical with this, but some poor hiding solid colors can have some color variation with different film thickess, so consistant spraying is important.

Rick



Offline PlumCrazy

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2006 - 01:34:17 PM »
There were no pits anywhere on the assembly lines, blackout was applied head on to the front of the car on the same dolly that was used to roll the car through the paint booths. The jams, engine bay and trunk were sprayed before the rest of the car was painted.

Offline Steve

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2006 - 06:19:58 PM »
Forgot the cite for the pit thing...I believe it was posted in a Mopar Muscle or Mopar Action magazine.

Also, any indication that the blackout was done the same way across plants?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2006 - 06:26:07 PM by Steve »

Alaskan_TA

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2006 - 06:44:38 PM »
I agree, the "blackout painted from a pit" is a myth.

Check out this photo from the 173 mile T/A, note the paint on the flat surfaces circled . If it was painted from a pit, either the painter had arms six feet long or there was a ladder in the pit. I have seen several other original paint cars with blackout paint in the same areas.

T/Ake care,
Barry

Offline PlumCrazy

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2006 - 07:08:22 PM »
Note the black on the battery tray and inner fender, it came through the hole straight not on an upward angle. 

Offline Steve

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2006 - 06:12:30 AM »
No pictures to show, but I saw signs on my '72 that the black was shot (at least some of it) at an upward angle. Of course, the upward angle can be achieved from someone standing in front of the car. The car in the photos is a '70? This is not to say that all of the blackout was done from below...it's also not to say that the person was in a pit 6' below ground level. From an ergonomics perspective, you would want the blackout person to be standing such that their head is about centered in the radiator opening.

I shot an email to RestoRick. If anyone would know, he would...I'll report back when Rick gets back to me.

Offline crcarch

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2006 - 06:49:20 AM »
It blows me away as to how sloppily these cars were originally put together and finished by the factory! It further reinforces my opinion that "enthusiasts" who'll pay $$$$$ for the original's but only $$ for meticulously rebuilt and refinished rides are  :screwy:

Let me step off the soap-box and ask - Does the body color stop at the top of the frame rail, extend down the inner side or go all the way to the underside?  How was the transition of paint to undercoating handled at the firewall/ frame rail junction.?  Any pics of those areas?
00/===\00 73 Challenger 440-4V/AT  8/--+--\8 09 Ram 1500  0o\==/o0 05 Crossfire Roadster OO(#####SRT)OO 10 Challenger

Offline PlumCrazy

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2006 - 12:10:07 PM »
The car was in the air when the undercoating was applied.

Offline Steve

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2006 - 12:29:34 PM »
I know...I was thinking about that this morning as I spent 4+ hours block sanding my engine compartment! It's funny...do your car true to factory and 99% of the people who see it will think, wow, that car doesn't look so hot. Do it up real nice and the purist will think, wow, that car is really incorrect.

Moral of the story:  do it your way and forget everyone else.


It blows me away as to how sloppily these cars were originally put together and finished by the factory! It further reinforces my opinion that "enthusiasts" who'll pay $$$$$ for the original's but only $$ for meticulously rebuilt and refinished rides are  :screwy:

Let me step off the soap-box and ask - Does the body color stop at the top of the frame rail, extend down the inner side or go all the way to the underside?  How was the transition of paint to undercoating handled at the firewall/ frame rail junction.?  Any pics of those areas?

Offline EvilTwinATX

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2006 - 03:09:17 PM »
Yeah... I want the car to be much better than factory but stay true to mopar styling...

Offline snowdog

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Re: Correct way to paint the front clip /engine bay of a 70 e-body?
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2006 - 08:24:09 AM »
Hi everyone,   

I don't know if this helps, but I actually worked at Dodge Main back in 76 when they were making the Dodge Aspen and the Plymouth Volare (please, no singing).  For a couple of days I filled in on the paint line and actually painted the black on the core support behind the grill.  It was not painted from a pit, since the paint booth was a downdraft system and there was rushing water underneath the car to take away the paint overspray.  It worked quite well (no pun intended).  So if it was painted from a pit (which it wasn't) you would have had to been standing in the water to paint the core support black.  Basically, you had to crouch down and spray the core support the best could while the car was moving.  You also have to be careful not to spray the underside of the hood, but the downdraft system worked so well that was usually not a problem.  This would also explain why the top of the core support is not painted black to well.  The black was painted right after the guys painted the cars; I was working right next to them.  Granted, it could have been different for Cudas and Challenger, but I don't think the paint line changed.  Hope this helps, Snowdog
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