Latest knowledge and recomendations on RB Strokers ?

[Robb]

Looking for recent data/recommendations on best route to go:

Currently I have a virgin '77 440-3 block and cast crank with fresh 452 heads installed and running in the Challenger bolted to a Keisler 5 spd manual tranny.  2.5" exhaust and HP manifolds.  825 carb, MSD 6al box with mopar electronic dist.   Power everything and A/C.

the static compression is low, (8.0 or less, however the "RV Cam" I have in here makes lots of Torque) and the top half of the rear main seal leaks more every day (the only seal/gasket I didnt change out before repainting and installing motor  )   so If I am going to pull the motor and tear it down again, I would like to make it worth my while, as well as improve my resale value (should that ever happen).  dropping closed chamber heads in the current motor would likely only get me in the high 8.x's compression wise.

Goals:   
pass AZ emissions (current motor and cam combo does)
, get to ~9.5:1 static compression, keep a reasonable gas mileage effiency  (12-14 hwy or better) and
keep things looking stock under the hood.  No change to exhaust system. 
~75K mile motor
If I ever take this car to the track it will be a one time affair only. 
Im more interested in street driving but still need a motor that will make the car "lucrative" to potential buyers in the future (more lucrative than the cast-crank low-compression 440 that is in it now)
Not to spend an obsene amount of money.  Would like to be able to get most of it back out at sale time.


I was looking at the 440ci-512ci  kit from 440 source

from the 440source site:
440 >> 512. (4.250" stroke/7.100" rod)
Now available with off the shelf flattop pistons in .040" over. The 4.250" stroke version of our Platinum Series crank used in this kit has the smaller 2.200" (big block Chevy sized) journals to make block clearancing much easier. In fact block clearancing for the 4.250" stroke crank with smaller rod journals is nearly the same as the 4.150" crank with Chrysler sized rod journals, making this kit hassle free to install, and almost a bolt in deal, just like our 440>>500 kit. This is the largest kit which is still able to use a factory style internal oil pickup. Coming soon for this kit is our Platinum Series pistons setup for PUMP GAS. These 17CC dished pistons with give a perfect pump gas compression ratio of 9.5 with factory style cast iron heads. Or, with the newer 75cc aluminum heads such as Indy and Edelbrock Victor, a perfect 10.5 to 1, which is ideal for pump gas with aluminum heads. More details and piston choices coming soon.
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Ill be tearing into the motor probably Late March or April when I have enough time to deal with it.



interested in recommendations and experiences

Thanks,

[moper]

Well, The "en vogue" thing now is biggest is better. But, like everything else, it all costs money. If you are basing the amount spent on resale, I wouldnt build a stroker engine, for several reasons. First, with a 5sp, your tires become worse than useless. A cool problem to have, but hardly a bonus. Second, on average, a non factory stroke engine will cost around 10% more than a build based around factory displacement. That's way down since the Brandon went into business and Edelbrock made decent budget heads. It used to cost 30% more. Now, in terms of power, you can make a 500hp/500tq 440 with 452 heads and a hydraulic cam. That AZ emmissions tho..what is the test? Idle, or idle and cruise? How much money do you plan to spend? What are the other systems in the car (cooling, ignition and fuel)?

[Robb]

That AZ emmissions tho..what is the test? Idle, or idle and cruise? How much money do you plan to spend? What are the other systems in the car (cooling, ignition and fuel)?

Emissions is:
Idle and 30 mph "loaded", and a gas cap present 

26" factory radiator with mopar viscous fan blade 180* thermostat, hi-volume aluminum water pump. (engine currently runs cool even in 110 heat)

Mopar electronic ignition reworked by FBO, MDS 6al box, MSD blaster 2 coil, Mopar 8mm blue sp wires.

fuel, 87-89 octane,  if I can get away with it.


$$$$    Id like to keep it around 3200$ or less  (with ebaying any parts I wont be using anymore (like a carb swap, flywheel, balancer) to defer the costs.

I will have a machine shop assemble the short block, but I will finish the rest myself.   
Ill be doing all removal and install.  (already have a shopcrane)

[moper]

That AZ emmissions tho..what is the test? Idle, or idle and cruise? How much money do you plan to spend? What are the other systems in the car (cooling, ignition and fuel)?

Emissions is:
Idle and 30 mph "loaded", and a gas cap present 

26" factory radiator with mopar viscous fan blade 180* thermostat, hi-volume aluminum water pump. (engine currently runs cool even in 110 heat)

Mopar electronic ignition reworked by FBO, MDS 6al box, MSD blaster 2 coil, Mopar 8mm blue sp wires.

fuel, 87-89 octane,  if I can get away with it.


$$$$    Id like to keep it around 3200$ or less  (with ebaying any parts I wont be using anymore (like a carb swap, flywheel, balancer) to defer the costs.

I will have a machine shop assemble the short block, but I will finish the rest myself.   
Ill be doing all removal and install.  (already have a shopcrane)

HHMMMm. Well, with the money you want to spend, buying the stroker kit will leave you with about $1100 left for small parts, machine work and assembly. I dont think you have enough. Boring, decking, honing, checking the parts, and balancing will cost around 800 by itself. The kits come complete, if you order them that way, and when you order them that way, the prices go up. You cannot figure on $1350 and it's good to go. At least in my opinion. I've used 3 kits from 440Source between fall of last year and now. None as shipped were $1350+shipping. If it were me, I would figure on building a stock stroke 440, stock rods, buy some decent pistons, and go from there. The last 440 short block I did was 2800 out the door, plus assembly. That's with everything but block, crank and rods new, and balancing a cast crank needing Mallory, and align honing the mains, square decking the block, etc. It's not finished,but the target is 500hp, 530tq on pump gas, 452 heads, and a hydraulic cam. It wouldnt pass your emmissions tho. I would build with flat tops, with a deck height set to have them tops come up .020 above deck. That should yield between 9.5 and 10:1 static. Run a daul plane intake, and dont block off the crossover. Tune very carefully, and I would use an Edelbrock Thunder 800cfm AVS carb on it. Your cam choice will be critical too, to keep the overlap down, but power up. I'd bet something around 460hp and 500tq can be made and kept clean running for the sniffer, for around $3800. If the heads need redoing, add another $1000 to the bill. I'm sure there are places that can do a job for less, but I dont think it will make the numbers and be clean for less than that.

[Robb]

Moper thank you very much for your insight and recommendations it is greatly appreciated.

if you dont mind me asking, what was the total cost you ended up with from 440source for a complete kit ?


The 452 heads I have were completely reconditioned a year ago.   Same size valves and no porting done.


I want the car to have respectable horspower, but mostly for curb-appeal for if I ever need to sell the car.  anything over 380-400hp should do the job Im hoping.

[moper]

The kits were spec'd by me, but ordered by customers, so the exacts would be someone else's deal..But, if I recall right, the two 500" RB kits were about $290 (in upgrades)above the kit costs, which were higher at that time. The B engine 451 kit was $2000, but again, he had other items from them  too. In 2 cases, the rods required $100 per set of re-sizing the big ends and pin fitting. The instructions say that can be done with emery by hand. I dont agree with that. They can be made to slide thru, but you cant get a correct "fit" unless it's done with the right tooling. Also, one crank had the balancer surface too small, so that needed to be addressed. Balancing and clearancing were also extra. The B block crank had to have the OD turned down apprx. .200" to keep everything from touching, so that was $200 more. AS I said, good parts, but you may need to do more than stick them in the block. Great parts for the prices. Shipping added a bit to the kits too. I will use their stuff again. More than likely over the winter. A bone stock 440 rebuild can get 400hp with stock manifolding and a cam. A true performance build can get an easy 450hp and pass emieeions, if the heads are done well enough. If it were me, I'd just build a nice solid 440. It may go a little over budget, but you're not setting yourself up for larger expenses later as things get done.