Whats this world coming to?

Author Topic: Whats this world coming to?  (Read 7380 times)

Offline 43gator

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2006 - 02:44:09 AM »
And your population is what??? I beleive we have more people in some cities than you  have in the whole country...It's all in the numbers my Kiwi friend! Crime is Crime!

There are problems everywhere...that is the point of my thread. You chastise America for her policies and crime but cherish our lifestyle and covet a car built by the very people you bad mouth???  :grinno:

"Yeah it's a bad crime, shall we dive into America's crimes? Yeah, I think not. ;) "

Nice, real nice!  :clapping:




Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2006 - 02:54:55 AM »


Not bad mouthing America (knew this would come into it) yeah I like the cars, don't have to like the country, BUT I DO. OK, 4 million divided by 7 = 1 in every 571,428.57 people have been imported for sex.  ;)

Oh, my, GOSH! That is terrible!  :22yikes: ::)

All I am saying is everywhere else in the world seems to be copping with gun laws yet American is having a little trouble, maybe not with the laws but with the ease of getting weapons and the people that use them......OK, Iraqi is worse but they run around with there weapons. lol

Yip, we are small, lots of space. (Bigger than the UK's land mass with 45,000,000 people less).  :cheers:

Please, No offence to America, I think it's one of the top places to live and visit.
It's just a debate, nothing more nothing less. I won't voice my opinion any more........


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Offline bigblock4speedman

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2006 - 04:01:36 AM »
America, the greatest country, everyone else in the world hates us, but they sure wish they could be here!  And there are some who think we should change?!?!!  there are more than enough of them already, they said they would move if Bush got re-elected, did they?  NO!  they're still here causing problems!  They don't appreciate being a citizen of this great country.  So many people died for their right to be stupid.  Thank god a lot of us have some sense and explained the way things are.  Guns are a tool, and  can be used in many ways, like all tools.  And as everyone has said here, many things can be used as weapons.  Yes, people are bad, so it's best that we have our constitution and rights, and keep them as they are.  Take a look at all people through history who have been disarmed, and what happenes to them, it aint good!  So it's best we keep our guns and freedom, I appreciate all who fought and died for it, because freedom is America's priority.  Along with the right to defend yourself and many other rights that some don't seem to understand.  The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigelance.

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2006 - 04:23:52 AM »


Yupe, living in the land of the free is good.  :woo: I think Afghanistan, Iraq and a couple of eastern nations are the only ones who don't have freedom, everywhere else does. Greatest country? There are plenty of them.


I'll defend myself, with what God gave me.  :thumbsup:
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Offline Four-Forty-fied

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2006 - 04:36:32 AM »
First off, so that others know where my bias lies:

“An armed society is a polite society.”

“Never trust a government that doesn’t trust its citizens to be armed.”

America is picked on because of its gun violence. Guns are simply an instrument. It is the people that cause violence, not the instrument. It is easy for homogonous societies to blame America’s difficulties on guns, but they are not exposed to the cultural diversity that exemplifies America.

The reality is that people do not like others that are different. (Hell, just look at how Chevy and Ford owners are treated by us and how they treat us!) America is the most ethnically diverse place on the planet; the EU is about 95% white, Canada is 86% white, yet America is 65% white. (I am not trying to make this racial; this is cultural. One has to admit that culture does often break along racial lines.)

You simply can’t compare America to the European Union, Australia & New Zealand, or Canada and come to the conclusion that the only difference is gun laws and that is why there is a disparity in violent crime.

And something to think about… why is it that gun crime is higher in states that have strict gun laws (may issue states) than the states that recognize our 2nd Amendment (shall issue states)?

Offline Four-Forty-fied

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2006 - 05:11:27 AM »
I think Afghanistan, Iraq and a couple of eastern nations are the only ones who don't have freedom, everywhere else does.

I’m sorry, but I think that was a cheap shot. Of all the places that you can think of that are not free countries, you highlighted the two that America has recently intervened with.

Just to be fair, you do realize that the head of your state is Queen Elizabeth II, meaning that your country is technically part of the United Kingdom? With that in mind, recognize that it was the UK and France that created the current boundaries of Iraq, Syria, Jordon, Israel, Palestine, and Lebanon with absolutely no regard to cultural differences, not the United States of America. Granted, that was directly after defeating the Ottoman Empire in World War One, so us Yanks can cut ya some slack so long as you don’t blame us for creating that Middle Eastern powder keg. We’re just cleaning up the mess.

(The same could be said of Vietnam. Before WW2, it was a French colony. The Japanese ran the French out of Vietnam, and then we ran the Japanese out. The only thing more surprising than the French thinking that they were entitled to re-colonizing Vietnam is why America sided with the French. No wonder Ho Chi Mihn sided with communist USSR. Democrat Truman and Republican Eisenhower both picked France over him.)

Offline EVIL72

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2006 - 06:43:42 AM »
 I think the main problem is the punishment is too soft for the crimes here.
 Even when they get sentenced, there's all these loop holes, and retrials or you get sentenced to say 20 years, but here in so and so, you will only serve say 10-12 and with good behavior you'll be out in 6 or 7.
 My best friend was murdered by her husband (shot in the head) a few years ago and I just heard he's getting a retrial.....sigh
 I still dont have anything against guns, my Dad had a ton of them when I was growing up, but we were taught how,when and where to use them. 
 I do have a problem with the weak punishments for the crimes though.
 
 
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Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2006 - 06:51:47 AM »
“Never trust a government that doesn’t trust its citizens to be armed.”

I think "V for Vendetta" put it even better: "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."


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Offline Plum6Pak

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2006 - 07:04:55 AM »
 :iagree:
I hear you Carl and I respect what you are saying.
A quote about America by Tony Blair,
"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ...... and how many want out."
As bad as it looks from the outside, you almost need to be here to see what it's like to live here. I would think NZ is a pretty nice place to live also and many others in the world as well.
The gun laws or the major gun law that was written into our constitution is for the right to bear arms. That argument will go on forever, I just hope the guns are never taken away, as someone already mentioned, if the guns are taken away the only people with guns would be the government and criminals.

Offline MOPAR FANATIC

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2006 - 08:06:40 AM »
 :22yikes: Holy man did i  :stirpot: on this subject,just got done reading the posts this morning,din't mean to start a all out war.  :roflsmiley: have to think alot of this trhough and think about it.  :bricks1: --dave--
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Offline crcarch

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2006 - 08:07:02 AM »
 :popcorn: All right.  I'll put in my  :2cents:...

I'd say that anyone who's reading this thread lives in a "good" country, because he obviously has freedom of speech.  So while we may have differences of opinions and disagree, we've each got the right to say it.  :thumbsup: Freedom of speech is considered an inalienable right by American's and so many in the world don't have it; and it isn't just Iraq or Afghanistan. There are many, many other countries who oppress their populace.

There isn't a single country that doesn't have problems with violence, large and small.  Each has different ways of dealing with it.  The US tends to have punishments that many consider to be soft.  I would agree that our justice system has faults, because there are instances when it obviously fails but the basis is to make sure that no one is sentenced without due-process and proper justification. It isn't perfect, but it's a hellofa lot better than many. 

As to guns being a problem;  if they weren't available, people would use something else to hurt or kill.  Locally, we had a man mow down a family walking across the parking lot of a McDonald's with his car.  The two-year-old was killed and the woman is now crippled. Witness's said he stopped and waved them across and then gunned it.  Does a car carry the stigma of a gun?  I don't think anyone would argue that point, but both can be used for good or intentionally to kill.

Violence is a product of just two things.
1.  :nono: "Momma didn't raise 'em right", which leaves a lack of moral compass.
2.  :stomp: "Anger management issues", which is mental.

If everyone had a strong moral compass - and I mean one that is based on goodness, regardless of what religion it may be based on and not one that has been perversed by hatred or a warped version of zealotry - then I'd bet that 99% of person-on-person violence would be eliminated and things like war, genocide and terrorism wouldn't exist.

As to the US being seen as the evil enemy to a substantial portion of the world.  It is partially our fault.  To use a metaphor, we tend to want to do the humane thing, like trying to stop a domestic quarrel at the neighbor's house.  Unfortunately, when we step-in to help the "victim" we alienate the aggressor and are often preceived (sometime rightly so) as overbearing by offending party as well as the lesser neigbor's. The other is that we aren't afraid to stand by our friend's.  Most who hate us hate Israel.  The hatred of Jews and Muslims goes back to Abraham and his feuding boys.  By supporting Israel, the US stepped into a war that has been fueled by bitter hatred for thousands of years. Of course, they're going to hate us.

I could go on and on.  Sorry...
I'll step off the soap-box now.  :popcorn:
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Offline MOPAR FANATIC

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2006 - 08:18:58 AM »
 :2thumbs: Totally agree with you 100 percent crcarch.hit it right on the nose.
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Offline heminut

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2006 - 10:57:10 AM »
We've been down this road before here and I'm not going to try to defend owning a gun vault full of guns. I will say this though Carl, anytime you start looking at statistics you need to carefully consider the source. The news media has always been biased towards the anti-gun side, are extremelly prone to sensationalism, are known to embellish for a better story, and are notorious for inaccuracies in the facts. As for gun violence studies, 90% of those are financed or done by anti-gun coalitions or other decidedly anti-gun institutions. As far as I'm concerned, there is no way those studies aren't biased! Making informed accurate comments on the gun situation here is hard to do if you don't live here because the only sources you have to base your comments on are those I've listed, which are very misleading. Do I have the credentials to back up what I'm saying? Darn right I do! I carried a gun and a badge for 22 years in one of the most liberal gun law states in the country, New Mexico. Two more of the most liberal are less than 100 miles from me, Arizona and Texas. I'm also 34 miles from the Mexican border. I would say that my circumstances have given me some qualification to be able to comment on gun ownership. I would have to say that I am glad I live in a country where for the most part the law abiding citizens are allowed to own firearms. The few places where that right has been severly curtailed, such as Washington D.C., have historically shown much higher violent crimes rates than the rest of the country. Carl, if you are going to criticize someone else's way of life you really need to walk in their shoes and experience it first hand, or else the criticism has no weight. I hope you don't take this personally, as it was not meant that way. I just feel that this country has been maligned enough by the media and people who don't live here need to realize it's not factual unbiased reporting. I hope you have no hard feelings over this my friend, and hopefully we will have the opportunity sit and tip a few together and discuss Mopars one of these days! :cheers:
« Last Edit: September 21, 2006 - 10:59:48 AM by 392heminut »
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Offline chrisII

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2006 - 12:20:33 PM »
the point i was "shooting for" is that there is no way that america will ever be gun free! it is in our history and the right bo bear arms is high on our prioritys as a country. Yeah some disagee, im not one to argue with our founding fathers. either way taking away funs would atke them form the honest and leave them with the government and criminals (yes some times these overlap)

    So we cant take them away thats established, like it or not. as some have mentioned we have the highest gun crime in the areas that ban or make gun ownership difficult. WHY do you think that is?? cuz the bad guys know that the good guy is unarmed!!! If even 25% of americans were properly trained (screened for mental stability)and carried a conceled hand gun the bad guy IS going to think twice beacuase violent crime would become russian rulette.it wouldnt eleminate violent crime, but I believe it would slow it down

Offline 43gator

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Re: Whats this world coming to?
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2006 - 06:13:54 PM »
392HEMINUT  I want to thank you for that 22 years of service you mentioned, you guys never get enough respect!Plus, I think you are absolutely correct in your assessment of this situation!

In a society that is based on the principal of "Free Choice" some people are going to make the wrong choice, for whatever reason that is, it happens. With that said, how that event is reported is how it will truly be perceived in the publics eyes. Take that for fact kids!

As for me, I arm-up every day in an effort to defend this country from within doing my part for Homeland Security. I view current job is a continuation of my military service as a Combat Security Force member and I'm very proud of what I've done and what I continue to  do!

I left this post this morning very angry over comments made by a 24 year old from New Zealand who has limited information and a skewed view of the actual reality of the situation. Not his fault, but still angering to those that know the real truth. NO offence NZ but maybe we should both back away from this thread in the interest of international relations :smilielol: