Clones- Love em' or Hate em'?

[6pkrunner]

When (if I ever live that long) get to doing the 1971 'cuda ragtop I have, she ain't going the resto route. It will closely, but not exactly resemble a '71 hemi cuda. While it will look stock from the outside, that's about where it will end. The original 383 will reside in the corner - just in case.

[Blackcuda]

My two clone garage.

[71340RT]

I think clones are great as long as that is the way they are represented when they are sold. To many people have made clones and sold them as originals. This is bad for the hobby. I would love to build a Hemi clone and that is the only way I will be able to afford one. I'm ready for another project right now but have no idea what direction I will go.

[MJS73]

I think taking a plain Jane car and making into a "clone" of a car you really want but can't afford or really want/already have but are afraid to drive on the street is fine, as long as it's sold that way and not represented as the real thing.

As to making a '71 R/T convert or the like, well that's different.  You're not cloning, because the car was never built in the first place.  It's your car, so fine, do what you want, but it's really not cloning, it's something else (tribute sounds good to me).

I have no problem adding options to my '73 Chally, but only if they are factory or factory-like.  Like the Grant 860 Tuff Wheel, Harms pistol grip, '70-style hood blackout, front spoilers, etc.  And I'll be adding the T/A ducktail spoiler, '70 longitudinal stripe (minus R/T letters) and a few other things.  I just want to avoid aftermarket.

And, hey oldvamoparfan, nice car!

[moper]

I have found the definition of "clone" to be different these days. When I started with these cars in '86, there wasnt clones. There was "a Cuda with a 440" that started life as a 318 car. My definition of clone is, aside from VIN, you would be hard pressed to tell it's not factory. That means, everything, torque boxes, transmissions, K frames, etc all are changed to factory items for the original design. A HemiCuda clone there for has a Hemi repro skid plate, correct torque boxes, the 10 spline trans, the 11" clutch and bell, a Dana axle, a SHaker setup (with all the parts and functional), everything just as you would have gotten if you ordered a Hemi in a Cuda. What I see defined here and elsewahere as clones are just engine swaps, or resto mods. They are not clones IMO. Clones you cant tell. they dont use schumacher mounts and 8 3/4 rears. I know of several clones where the only thing different is the BH23G vin. In one case, it has all the add on options on a new fender tag...With the true Vin number. That's a clone. And a darn good one...lol. My '70 383 "L" code with it's 440 and Dual scoop hood is no clone.

I also think any person, keeping these cars in high esteem, and improving them by restoration, or by modification, is good for the business, the hobby in general, and should be supported. 

[BARACDA]

Moper has it right that anyone who does take the time and money to "restore, restomod, clone" or whatever is good for the car hobby.  The sad side of this is the amount of downright theft being done by those who re'body cars to capatilize on a destroyed cars heritage to make a buck at the expense of telling a downright lie to the buyer. 

With all the "free" registries out there like the TA Register ( to Barry) and the LA Registry ( http://www.lamopar.com/ ) , the E-Body Club ( http://www.webspawner.com/users/ebodymoparclub/ ) the Hamtramchk Historical Registry ( http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/ ) and several others it would be nice if there was some public information being put out about which rare VINS have been identified as being still on the road or whatever.  I dont know what the solution is exactly but with this info being gathered it would be nice to have access to it as a buyer to keep from being the victim of fraud.

jim

[BB73Challenger]

I like clones, as everyone seems to agree, AAR or T/A cars have grown out of my price range. And some day I will get an AAR - clone or otherwise.(most likely clone)

I DON'T like, people who make clone cars to simply turn for profit. Hurts the hobbey in my opinion.

[Challenger6pak]

 

I have found the definition of "clone" to be different these days. When I started with these cars in '86, there wasnt clones. There was "a Cuda with a 440" that started life as a 318 car.  What I see defined here and elsewahere as clones are just engine swaps, or resto mods. They are not clones IMO. Clones you cant tell. they dont use schumacher mounts and 8 3/4 rears.
I also think any person, keeping these cars in high esteem, and improving them by restoration, or by modification, is good for the business, the hobby in general, and should be supported. 

:iagree:I have been involved with the Ebodys since 1980.  The "real" factory performance Ebodys have always been rare. What made most of the legends on the streets were the 318 Ebodys with the Crane cammed 440 New Yorker motors.  I have nothing against clones.  I am building two. I have a couple of rare ones also.  I will enjoy the clones more. We may be reaching the point of actually building street rods out of the Ebodys.  They are here to enjoy.

[moper]

:iagree:I have been involved with the Ebodys since 1980.  The "real" factory performance Ebodys have always been rare. What made most of the legends on the streets were the 318 Ebodys with the Crane cammed 440 New Yorker motors.  I have nothing against clones.  I am building two. I have a couple of rare ones also.  I will enjoy the clones more. We may be reaching the point of actually building street rods out of the Ebodys.  They are here to enjoy.

See, that's funny. mu '70 was a 383 4bbl when I got it. (really L code 2bbl)  Within 1 summer I had a '78 New Yorker's 440, and iron 6bbl, and a Crane cam in it..lol. Drove it that way daily in CT (2 winters..lol) for 2 years. Sometimes we get all wrapped up in "gotta have 500hp" and gotta have 4.10s" that we forget the most fun times were pump gas $1000 spray bomb rebuilds. and It still went 12.40s on my "sticky" Dunlop GT Qualifiers

[jeryst]

I can easily see how a /6 $15,000 70 Challenger with new paint, interior etc that has a nicely built hemi with good parts and trans, rear, etc can be "worth" $20,000 or more.  Just pricing a hemi, carbs, air cleaner, fuel delivery, cooling, trans, rear end, shifter, linkages etc etc the price tag can easily go over the $20,000 mark if done with mostly new or newly rebuilt parts.

jim

I agree. What bothers me, is the guy that thinks this car is now worth $65k+  just because it is a hemi clone.

[Oldschool]

I'm not big on clones......   

That's why I own a '69 original big-block 4 speed car with a bunch of '68 parts on it.  Lots of fiberglass, 727, Dana, 528 Ray Barton Hemi, and a roll cage.   Couldn't find an affordable '68 SS car, so I improvised........  lol                     

[72hemi]

The only problem I have with "cloning" cars is when someone takes an already rare high performance car and hemi clones it. @ examples: I know of a 70 AAR 'Cuda black that was a numbers matching car, that someone thought it would be a good idea to clone that car into a hemi car. Sell the AAR if you really want a hemi clone and buy a straight rust free 318 or /6. The second example is on ebay somewhere right now where someone took a 440 4 speed 70 'Cuda and hemi cloned it. Those are 2 cars in my opinion that should have been restored to original specs and not cloned. I think that 340 383 4b and up should not be cloned, just my opinion though. Everyone is making good points. Now I must say I am one who is "cloning" cars to make a profit. But 1 these cars when finished are a hell of a lot better off then when I started, 2 someone else would have cloned the car if I didn't, and 3 (most important) if I do a half dozen or so I will be able to pay off my car, my girlfriend's (soon to be wife) truck, my student loans, and buy a house. Which under normal circumstances even after I graduate and have my degree in Mechanical Engineering would be difficult here in California.

[moper]

A properly done clone is worth lots too. It's when it's not a proper clone, and the seller thinks it's done right, that I start getting all itchy. A 440/4sp car, that now has the Hemi K, the Dana rear, corrrect booster, etc, is worth IMO 1/2 way between a real hemi car, and the prices for 440/4sp cars done nice, with a non matching engine. A 340 car, with a hemi on schumacher mounts, 8 3/4, std gages, ralley hood, and 14" ralley wheels is worth the price going  rate for a used Hemi plus the value of a condition 2 340 car. In other words, the 340 car aint a clone IMO..lol. I'm all for making $$ with them. Anyone who says they are against it has enough $$ to not have to worry about day to day expenses.

[jeryst]

I'm all for making $$ with them. Anyone who says they are against it has enough $$ to not have to worry about day to day expenses.

I'm not even going to make a comment.

[Madmax440]

I am proud to say that I own a 1971 Challenger R/T 440 Magnum Clone. The car was originally a 318 Challenger with Gold exterior. Do I wish that I could afford an original - Hell Yeah. Although, there are too many other priorities. We have to remember that this is a hobby. I am not in the best of health and can't take on a restoration like others have here. That is why I have the utmost admiration for those who can restore. If anybody wants to stick their nose up at my car because it is not an original, I really don't care. These are not the type of people that I wish to associate with anyway.