Author Topic: 727/518/618 case cut for a JW ultra bell - update  (Read 20524 times)

Offline ntstlgl1970

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727/518/618 case cut for a JW ultra bell - update
« on: September 25, 2006 - 04:56:26 PM »
Looks like this bellhousing will fit the 518/618 trans which to me makes me think that swapping an overdrive automatic would be easier ( and cheaper) going this route.....anyone try this before?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009 - 06:29:47 PM by ntstlgl1970 »
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....




Offline tactransman

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2006 - 05:18:39 PM »
I assume you are wanting to put a big block in front of it?
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Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2006 - 11:10:46 PM »
Yes, I picked up a 01 47RE out of a diesel 2wd ram for a pretty good price off craigslist. I haven't torn it down yet, but I thought for the price of the trans ($300) and the JW ultra bell it would be worth a shot. I have a standalone fuel injection system that hopefully will run the governor solenoid. Guess my biggest question would be how accurate the cut needs to be for the bellhousing. According to JW, the ultra bell bolts onto the front of the pump like some ford automatics. If so, I would think that the cut wouldn't be to critical as long as it doesn't intrude into the pump bore area, but I thought I would ask. And if it doesn't work, I could use some of the internals from the 47RE to build another 727 maybe. I did some research beforehand and it seems there is pretty decent support for this transmission, as well as upgrades to fix common problems. I have a 727 in the car now that is fine, so it's not like I need to rush through this to get the car running. Any thoughts good or bad are appreciated
 :bigsmile:
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline tactransman

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006 - 06:56:32 AM »
Pretty much none of the internals will interchange with a 727 . You can beef up a 727 without using 47RE parts.As for as the bellhousing goes , call and ask them! :thumbsup:

 JW Performance  321-632-6205   E-mail:  jwperf@digital.net
Terry-tactransman 
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Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006 - 05:34:30 PM »
JW faxed me the instructions, pretty much says to use a sawzall so I guess the cut isn't that critical. I'll have to stock up on some tools for the overdrive section of the trans, get a converter and then I should be good to go.
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline moper

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2006 - 10:08:11 AM »
You do not use a sawzall. You can to get the bulk of it off, but the rest needs to be done on a bridgeport or milling table. I havent done Mopars, but the shop has done a couple, including thier own TH350 in the race car. It has to be machined flat and parallel.

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2006 - 04:43:49 PM »
The instructions from JW say to use a sawzall, and finish with a die grinder. Since the bell bolts to the pump, not the case, it should be ok, but I'll check with a dial indicator off the crank to be sure....
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline tactransman

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2006 - 11:30:06 AM »
Just found this on putting a big block in front of a 518. Check it out and see what you think. (P.S. JVX is OK :thumbsup: )
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/43323_mopar_overdrive_transmission_swap/index.html
« Last Edit: October 05, 2006 - 11:33:27 AM by tactransman »
Terry-tactransman 
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Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2006 - 06:30:01 PM »
That was an interesting article, thanks for the link. I'm going to go with the ultra bell rather than the adapter plate/spacer/flywheel route since the adapter is for a small block case and I have a diesel/V10 case. A couple of things that I have been trying to decide on is whether or not to spend the extra money for increased clutch capacity on this trans. Since it supposedly came out of a diesel truck it already has 4 front, 4 rear, 5 overdrive brake and 9 or 10 overdrive direct clutches, 5 gear front planet, 4 gear rear planet and the wide rear wrap band. I'm waiting for the tools to disassemble to overdrive clutch housing before ordering parts. The only thing I found wrong with it so far was the front band strut on the adjuster side had broken and fallen into the pan, so that band was worn out along with the direct clutch pack. The forward and overdrive brake clutches looked excellent, planetary and total endplay were within specs. Would it be worth it in your opinion to upgrade to a 5 friction direct pack (alto/raybestos etc.). Although I don't mind spending the money to make the trans super bomb proof, the fact that it was already designed to work behind a cummins with 5 or 6 hundred ft/lbs of torque makes me wonder if it would be an unneeded upgrade. I will do all the valve body stuff that is recommended either with a transgo or sonnax kit. I would like to keep the lockup converter, since it appears that there are companies making stronger ones out there along with some hybrid 12"clutch/11"converter models with high stall (well 2800 anyway). Once I get the ultra bell, I'm going to dummy up an extra BB 727 case with a pump and my current converter and take a bunch of measurements as to drive tube depth into the pump etc, then dummy up the ultra bell and the 47RE pump and compare. Hoping it will be pretty compareable between the two. Then choosing a converter should be pretty easy.
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline tactransman

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2006 - 06:27:13 AM »
I knew you had a diesel case but thought you would still like to read it :thumbsup: The 47RE is fine the way it is. Like you said, it is set up to go against the HP/Torque of the Cummins.The broken band strut is common. I see that alot. I think the factory has set the band adjustment way to loose and the strut gets side ways and then the servo applies and POP! I have also seen struts that have fallen out! It sounds like you have done and are going to do alot of research on this, smart , very smart :grinyes:
 I would go with:


Part # TFOD-HD2     89-04 4 Speed RH & RE Models 42-47
Automatic Shift; Street or Full-race;
Holds 1st, 2nd and 3rd to any rpm;
Backshifts to 3rd, 2nd and 1st at any rpm.
Competition combination. Has resistor.

Also recommend Superior band strut:
« Last Edit: October 06, 2006 - 09:16:19 PM by tactransman »
Terry-tactransman 
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Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2006 - 01:07:54 PM »
that's the shift kit I ordered, along with an improved strut and a 4.2 lever. I had another anchor in my spare parts box and I agree with you on the anchor thing, the wear pattern from the adjuster stud was in a weird location. Hopefully I will have the stuff this week to make some progress on it.
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2006 - 12:53:57 AM »
Got the tools and the ultra bell for the trans. Seems like a quality piece and I can save the extra $200 bucks that JVX charges for the adapter plate vs the ultra bell and be SFI legal to boot! Hopefully I'll have some pics next week.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2006 - 01:31:26 AM by ntstlgl1970 »
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline tactransman

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2006 - 07:06:01 AM »
Hopefully I'll have some pics next week.
:popcorn:
Terry-tactransman 
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Union, Mo.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2006 - 11:38:58 PM »
pretty much have all the parts now.....including the 4.2 lever, kickdown band strut, bushings, thrust washers, direct drum etc.
just waiting for the shift kit now....
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008 - 04:28:31 PM by ntstlgl1970 »
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline tactransman

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Re: Anyone cut a 727/518/618 case for a JW ultra bell?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2006 - 07:05:59 PM »
Wow!!! :money: :money: :money:   :thumbsup:
I see you have all the tools for the OD section too, did they come with the kit?
Looks GREAT!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2006 - 07:08:05 PM by tactransman »
Terry-tactransman 
Torqueflite/Automatic Transmission Specialist
Union, Mo.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.