And the smoking ban hell continues....

[422STROKER]

 

People smoke for any or all of a variety of reasons and the reasons are irrelevant to the discussion.  No one has the right to tell anyone else what legal activities they can and can't do around them. Period.

Mike

So I couldn't tell my Mother that her breath stunk?, wait I did that...  How about a small child not being able to tell Momma that she stinks of smoke and she's killing you from second hand smoke?  Doesn't seem right to me.  Personally I do not let ANYONE smoke in my house.  My Children are more important to me than the "Rights" of Smokers.  No exceptions.  I guess I don't have the right to do such things according to your views.  But this is America and is OK to think this way if you want and it is OK for me to believe what I believe. 

 


Tom

[MJS73]

So I couldn't tell my Mother that her breath stunk?

Who said who couldn't do anything you want in your house?  This was about public places, not a residence you own.

How about a small child not being able to tell Momma that she stinks of smoke and she's killing you from second hand smoke?  Doesn't seem right to me. 

Well, if you can prove it kills you (2nd hand smoke) you'll be the first.  No one else can prove it.  It justs gets passed on as a myth.  No one has proven it yet, we just hear statements like "it makes sense" and "it has to be true", neither of which are scientific arguments.

Personally I do not let ANYONE smoke in my house.

Your right as a property owner.

But this is America and is OK to think this way if you want and it is OK for me to believe what I believe.

Absolutely.

[422STROKER]

Finally we agree!  I honestly don't care if the restaurants are smoke free as I never had a problem sitting in the smoke free section although it was smaller than the smoking section so sometimes there was a wait.  The few time I decided to sit in the Smoking section it was fine(except for one Cigar smoking fella).  Oh well it's moot now as they probably won't change it back.

Tom

[Madmax440]

It all comes down to individual rights, but when in pursuit of your rights you infringe on someone elses that is taking it too far. I am a smoker, but I don't smoke in my house, in my office or anywhere else that I may infringe on someone elses rights or harm someone else. This is not something that I am proud of and I am not going to have it effect someone else. Although, if I am sitting on a park bench enjoying a cigarette and someone comes up and sits next to me, don't expect me to move or put the cigarette out.   

[torredcuda]

It all comes down to individual rights, but when in pursuit of your rights you infringe on someone elses that is taking it too far. I am a smoker, but I don't smoke in my house, in my office or anywhere else that I may infringe on someone elses rights or harm someone else. This is not something that I am proud of and I am not going to have it effect someone else. Although, if I am sitting on a park bench enjoying a cigarette and someone comes up and sits next to me, don't expect me to move or put the cigarette out.   

  I wish all smokers were like you and if they were we probably wouldn`t have this problem.

As far as choising to eat at a restaurant with smokers it is fine for the patrons but
the workers have no chioce but to breath the smoke,the only chioce my wife had after she was transfered by the comapny from a non-smoking store to a smokin one was to quit her job of 20+ years and try to find another job in a smoke free enviroment and not only lose all her beneifits and senoirity but also probably take a substantial pay cut.

[torredcuda]

Well, if you can prove it kills you (2nd hand smoke) you'll be the first.  No one else can prove it.  It justs gets passed on as a myth.  No one has proven it yet, we just hear statements like "it makes sense" and "it has to be true", neither of which are scientific arguments.

I think cigarettes have been well proven to cause cancer.I am no scientist and have no proof but I very much doubt that a smokers lungs filter out all the bad stuff before the smoker exhauls. 

[Madmax440]

Torredcuda, There should be something that your wife could have done legally against the company. They moved her into a (proven) dangerous environment and they should have taken some responsibility and moven her back. The more stories I hear (and listen to with an open mind) the more I lean towards understanding the other sides point.

If anyone thinks that second hand smoke being harmful is just a myth, I am sorry but they are just downright IGNORANT. I don't need a scientific study to convince me that even if it wasn't harmful, it is offensive to some people. Just as I am offended by ignorance. I am offended by the thought that it isn't harmful. Every contaminated breath of air that you take is harmful to you. I think that the only thing that has not been proven is to what extent that it is harmful and with it just being offensive is enough for me to respect that persons wishes not to contaminate their lungs.     

[ss]

 Personally I do not let ANYONE smoke in my house.  My Children are more important to me than the "Rights" of Smokers.  No exceptions.  I guess I don't have the right to do such things according to your views.  But this is America and is OK to think this way if you want and it is OK for me to believe what I believe. 

 


Tom

Aren't you glad you have the right to run your house (and your business )the way you decide is best?
Don't take it for granted.  There are people who think they should dictate what is right and wrong for you.

[Bonkers]

Every contaminated breath of air that you take is harmful to you. I think that the only thing that has not been proven is to what extent that it is harmful and with it just being offensive is enough for me to respect that persons wishes not to contaminate their lungs.

Spoken by someone who says they drive a 440 V8? What if I said you need to stop driving your car because the tailpipe emissions are affecting my lungs?

You want a tad bit of proven theory - a 1960's muscle car produces more pollution while being stored than a 2005 Honda civic running at 55mph. The leads in the paint, along with the lesser refined rusting metals (not to mention the glues and textile additives) can kill a person sealed inside a room with one of these cars over time. You don't even have to start it. A carberated, un-cat'ed 440cid V8 at 55mph is producing several unfilters packs of marlboros every minute it runs.

If you are truely worried about someone else's lung health the first thing you need to do is crush your ride for recycling. Maybe start a campaign to forceably confiscate all muscle/antique cars for proper recycling and disposal - think of all the children's lungs you could save then.

How hard do you think that leap will be? We already ban cars that don't meet certain emissions requirements, how much effort would it take to raise the limits another 5%, or even 50%?

[422STROKER]

Aren't you glad you have the right to run your house (and your business )the way you decide is best?
Don't take it for granted.  There are people who think they should dictate what is right and wrong for you.

I already have that problem, I'm Married!   Been 6 years now(Together for 12).

Tom

[Four-Forty-fied]

Spoken by someone who says they drive a 440 V8? What if I said you need to stop driving your car because the tailpipe emissions are affecting my lungs?

You want a tad bit of proven theory - a 1960's muscle car produces more pollution while being stored than a 2005 Honda civic running at 55mph. The leads in the paint, along with the lesser refined rusting metals (not to mention the glues and textile additives) can kill a person sealed inside a room with one of these cars over time. You don't even have to start it. A carberated, un-cat'ed 440cid V8 at 55mph is producing several unfilters packs of marlboros every minute it runs.

If you are truely worried about someone else's lung health the first thing you need to do is crush your ride for recycling. Maybe start a campaign to forceably confiscate all muscle/antique cars for proper recycling and disposal - think of all the children's lungs you could save then.

How hard do you think that leap will be? We already ban cars that don't meet certain emissions requirements, how much effort would it take to raise the limits another 5%, or even 50%?

I think the only problem with that argument is that unlike an automobile (no matter how inefficient and harmful that automobile may be), a cigarette serves no practical purpose. A car does. Furthermore, I doubt that an emission law can be retroactive. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess that they could pass a law that these old and dangerous cars can no longer be sold to another person with the intent of driving it on public roads.

At any rate, I'm not a smoker, but do have a problem with the government telling property owners what they can do with their property.

[Madmax440]

Bonkers, You make an excellent point since there are other means of non-polluting forms of transportation. I never gave thought to the damage that my car may be having on others.

Although, I have to be more understanding of the non-smokers point of view and try to respect their wishes as well. As a fellow human being they deserve that, but they must also learn to respect and try to be more accomodating as well. In the words of the great Rodney King "Can't we all just get along".   

[Bonkers]

I think the only problem with that argument is that unlike an automobile (no matter how inefficient and harmful that automobile may be), a cigarette serves no practical purpose.

In regards to purpose, the key point there is the term "an automobile." Strictly speaking there is absolutely nothing you can't do in your Cuda that you can't do in .. say an Insight. You can get to work, you can drive 55mph, you can carry three uncomfortable adults, you can even go shopping...so long as you shop at really small stores. There is no logical reason in the world for you to light up your unfiltered big block - it pollutes, gets bad gas mileage, and can even be considered 'unsafe at any speed' when compared to modern Volvos. But you still do. That's what freedom means and that's the blessing and curse of being American.

Madmaxx (and anyone else I may have replied to) - sorry, I'm re-reading some of the posts I made and I'm not trying to put anyone on the defensive, I apologize if I seem a little too agressive.

[MJS73]

Bonkers, you hit it right on the head.  I couldn't have said it better myself.  Now we want other people (or the government) to decide what's "practical" for us.  The pursuit of happiness is apparently an old and tired concept.  It should be changed to the pursuit of what the majority (or the government) feels is practical.  Let me list a few "unpractical" things that we should all vow to rid from our lives today:

- big screen tvs (use too much electricity)
- muscle cars (polluters that use too much of "our" gas)
- houses larger than, say 800 square feet (use too much energy and who really "needs" more than that, anyway)
- car stereos (dangerous to operate while driving)
- coffee (dangerous to drink while driving)
- alcohol (no good comes of it, anyway)
- guns and hunting (when guns are outlawed all criminals will willingly line up to turn all of their guns in)

Wait, on second thought I think I'll just enjoy the freedoms that our forefathers fought so hard for.  I guess I'm not as anxious as I thought to hand over my liberties to what others think might be best for me.  Especially with the junk or non-existent science on this subject that seems to pass for fact.

I don't see this as a single issue topic. I think that once you let government take over one aspect of your life, you'd better be prepared to hand over every aspect of your life. Although I feel strongly about the subject, I feel even stronger about the overall concept. While you may not care about smoking either way, I see a bigger picture that's being forgotten about.

Mike

[KTO]

I'm not a smoker but I whole-heartedly support smoking in bars....as much as possible too.

How else would I be able to tell which chicks at the bar are easy and which are not.

JUUUUSSST KIDDING!!!!!!