Suspension Upgrades

[71_340Challenger]

I have looked at and read a bunch of different articles and posts here on suspension upgrades. Like everyone, I am looking for the best bang for the buck. I don't mind spending the money if it is worth it. Ultimately I want a good handling 71 Challenger. I am not road racing or drag racing, but a very good handling car. By the way, my Challenger has a recently rebuilt 440, with a 727, 8-3/4 rear with a sure-grip. The main three places I have seen/read about are:
1. XV Engineering - Stage 1 (wish I could afford the front and rear Stage 2)
2. RMS AlterKtion
3. Magnum Force Tubular K-member

I am looking for this to have power steering and have a budget of about $5000 for the upgrades. Are there specific choices that anyone has made with any or all of these kits that people recommend? Thanks for the help. 

[71_340Challenger]

Or, would I be better served (and save a few bucks in the process) just getting a polyurethane suspension rebuild kit such as the g-machine kit from Performance Suspension components and a couple of new sway bars. Maybe throw in a set of torsion bars as well. Another kit I have looked at is the "Real Deal" from Just Suspensions? Any used these kits before and have any suggestions? Thanks.

[360 'CUDA]

This guy seems to know what he is doing

http://members.aol.com/pwall5/cars/2cudapag.html

And there is always the green brick

[IMNCARN82]

   Cool.

[71_340Challenger]

That is a pretty interesting website. I am a mechanical engineer myself, and have started studying my stock suspension and what other are doing to improve handling. My problem is more ability on the fabrication side of things. I would love to get the handling such, that I could go to one of the local autocross meets with my big, heavy, gas-hog, 440 powered 71 Challenger and smoke a few of the ricers!  Now that would be priceless! 

[360 'CUDA]

This guy seems to know what he is doing

http://members.aol.com/pwall5/cars/2cudapag.html

And there is always the green brick

Here is some Green brick stuff from Mopar Action. I guess the site was down for a couple of days but it's back now

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/one-lap-pix.html

[cudabuyer]

alterktion is my choice, is installed but car not on road yet, maybe april 

[71_340Challenger]

alterktion is my choice, is installed but car not on road yet, maybe april 

Cudabuyer, for what reason(s) did you choose the Alterktion unit? It does look awesome.  After reading everything I can on them all, they all think they are the best thing. So, I was looking for some real world comparisons from people I believe on this site. Thanks for the input. Hope you had a Merry Christmas and a have a Happy New Year .

[Chryco Psycho]

I agree with Alter-K-Tion being the best design & at least now you can get it with a front sway bar as well 

[go-fish]

I think a full stage XV system would be the best because they have alot of high tech engineering and state of the art R&D with the chassis dyno. However in the real world I went with Bill Reilly's Alter-k-tion. Alter-k-tion has alot of real world experience and attains nearly the same result as XV for a whole lot less money.
Bill is a super nice guy, where as XV came on the scene like they were King Sh*t, I thought Canadiens were more humble than that. A magazine article quoted him as saying something to the effect of, "This is something that a guy in his garage with a chopsaw can't do." How does he know that, didn't Carol Shelby once work out of an old barn down in Texas?
I think Alter-k-tion is the best thing going for someone who doesn't want to spend upwards toward $8,000 dollars on front suspension.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, I plan on doing a budget front suspension on the wife's 67 Dart. Stiffened up LCA's, tubular upper A-arms, polyeurethane bushings, and tubular strut rods. Not really budget but not on the scale that my Alter-k-tion was.

[willhaven]

Shelby probably didn't have access to a computer controlled 4 post test rig to design his suspension systems. His cars probably would have been better if he had these tools back then.

The XV design is absolutely impossible for somebody to just design on paper and build to these specifications. At least, not without a ton of trial and error and a lot of money and time.

The Reilly stuff looks great and I've never heard a bad word about any of his products, but will it really hold up to a specifically engineered system like the Level II XV? I guess we'll see in a few months when the XV guys compile and release their performance numbers. I would suspect that their costly investment and design work will most definitely pay off. I think it's going to be very hard to touch the XV stuff, but on the other hand, it's in another league in terms of price. Usually you get what you pay for. I wouldn't expect these suspension setups to be any different than anything else in life. I hear the Reilly system is far better than the stock setup and it's already probably as good as many of us will ever need.

I don't think the XV guys have acted high and mighty either. They're just selling a product and are (hopefully) telling it like it is. I think the smartest thing they did was to make everything one big integrated package that you KNOW will work on your car. There will be none of the "I wonder if these brakes will work with my front suspension geometry" questions. That kind of reassurance and simplicity will probably be a big decision maker for those with the money to spend.

I wonder how many XV Level II setups we'll see around this board. Maybe one or two over the next year?

[71_340Challenger]

It does appear that the XV stuff is definately the king of the hill with the price to match. Their stuff is pretty much outside my budget for sure.

Has anyone use the Magnum Force kits? They look pretty slick and have basically the same idea as the Alterktion kit and roughly the same price.

Cudabuyer, what options did you get on your Alterktion system? Did you get the power steering? What did you do for shocks? And what spring rate did you end up with?  For me, I was thinking of the power steering, staying with the standard QA1 shocks with 500 lb springs for good performance handling. Did you go with their sway bar? Seems like you would be better off just getting the brackets welded on and gettting one somewhere else.

Thanks for all the help and opinions everyone. I am still have not made any decisions.

[Chryco Psycho]

the AlterKTion is a better sysytem to the Magnum force
 the Magnum force doesn`t re-inforce the tower where the coil over sits

[go-fish]

I can't speak for Cudabuyer but I got the Alter-k-tion with every option except for the SL6? calipers, I got the Dyna-Lite 4 pistons. I also did the corresponding rear brake kit from Willwood that uses the same calipers. The rear e-brake is a pain to set up though.
I opted for QA1's with a 600lb spring. I am using QA1's with the AirRide 4-bar I got from Reilly, I wanted the kit but didn't want air springs.
As I said before, based on facts and research, I think that the XV system would be and is the best. It's a no-brainer. I will use the car to it's limits but I don't think I need to go as far as sacrificing some of my budget on an XV system. Would I buy one if I had a surplus of cash? Heck yes I would. Even if they are on a high horse it doesn't mean they don't have an awesome product.
Also, the Magnum Force comes complete with future headaches.

[GMachineDartGT]

Some of you have been following the introduction of our offerings...I am pleased to announce some of the data from the powers that be, concerning track testing of our level one suspension kits. On our 71 Cuda test car, they were able to achieve 1.03g in cornering, which is pretty impressive. Keep in mind, that car also had our stiffening kit, consisting of frame connectors, inner fender braces and a tubular rad support. It was also sporting some good rubber on billet wheels, not sure if they were 17s or 18s though.

The other good news, is that when the 71 Cuda mentioned above, compared lap times with our stock 70 TA Challenger that sports factory front and rear sway bars and 235/245 60 15 Radial TAs, the Cuda was 9 seconds ahead of the Challenger on a 1.33 mile course. Thats a pretty significant gain. Any questions, PM or call!