Author Topic: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system  (Read 12835 times)

Offline Grundy

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The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« on: December 22, 2006 - 11:35:06 AM »
In finding the thread about the 5.0 MAF system, I've been looking around for more info. How is this system working for those using it?

The old thread: 

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=7247.0
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Offline 57hemicuda

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2006 - 03:13:47 PM »
I don't know about that system,but I used a GM LS1 system on my cuda.I have it on the new Hemi,but I think it could be adapted to a big or small block  http://mysite.verizon.net/ls6ron/   I do think the Ford set up would be alot cheaper though

Offline Grundy

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2006 - 05:21:18 PM »
Can you give me more info? How did you set it up? What was the ballpark cost?
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Offline EFI-Cuda

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2006 - 12:17:54 AM »
I am the Cuda owner that put Ford's mass air computer system on my Cuda years ago.   I have been very pleased with the engine's performance, economy and drivibility. 

At the end of the summer I installed a Vortech V2 S-Trim supercharger to the engine, and I am still working out some of the engine's tuning issues that the supercharger created.   Boost is great, but it can do a lot of damage to your engine if timing and fuel delivery are off.

There is no supercharger kit from Vortech for an E-body Mopar.  Much less one that is running a Ford computer system.   Therefore, some fabrication and customizing is involved.   Without getting into too much detail, I have discovered that there are multiple ways to get the computer system to work well with a blower.   Many of those ways involve tricking the computer and/or fuel delivery system to work under boost.   

In my opinion, best way to proceed is not to trick the computer, but to tell the computer exactly what you are doing and what components your engine is running.   This way the computer does it's job the way that it was designed.  For example, if you choose to use 60lb fuel injectors and a larger 90mm mass air sensor, you could have a computer chip burned to tell the engine's computer about the changes.   The computer chip can even be programed to change the Mustang's firing order to the Mopar's firing order (which would save a ton of time and inconvience in wiring.)

Many Mustang owners (especially the supercharger owners) are getting custom tunes which involve these computer chips being custom tweeked.   A vehicle owner would take their car to a tuner with a dyno, then run the car through several dyno pulls.   Between these dyno pulls fine adjustments can be made to the computer chip's program until the best air/fuel ratio, drivibility and maximum power is achieved.   

I tried tuning my Cuda myself, but felt that it would be safer to get the engine tuned by an experienced engine tuner that specialized in the Mustang's computer system.   During my dyno session, we discovered that my torque converter was loose because two of the bolts were stripped causing the converter to wobble.   That ended any further high RPM testing.    The only dyno run that was sucessful was cut short.   The engine only revved to 4,500RPM's and the engine achieved 452HP and 526TQ.   After I replace the converter, I plan to return to the dyno.   I expect that the engine will make power to 6,500 RPM's.





« Last Edit: December 23, 2006 - 09:36:34 AM by EFI-Cuda »
Cuda 408, Ford EFI, Magnum heads, Vortech V-2 Si-Trim, A-518 transmission and 3.23 gears.

Offline 57hemicuda

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2006 - 06:07:42 AM »
That is a very cool set up.What I love about the Mustang stuff is it is so cheap and there are alot of guys that can tune on it.My Cuda was tuned by F body central here in Maryland because they've done thousands of LS1's,and a stste of the art dyno.The supercharger would definitly be a challenge for a novice tuner.Here is Brett the tuner and the car on the dyno at F body 
« Last Edit: December 23, 2006 - 06:10:22 AM by 57hemicuda »

Offline Grundy

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2006 - 11:04:54 AM »
Thanks for the info. I'm not looking to supercharge my car. I've got a rebuilt 340, mild cam, and that's the way I'm going to keep it. I just want an affordable EFI system.
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Offline moper

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2006 - 02:27:12 PM »
I've read about cars with Ford and GM injection. You have to remember, the computer cant tell what brand it's running. You just need to size the injectors and throttle body and mass air for the right displacement. DC will never allow guys to decipher it's code for the factory electronics. Ford and GM do just that. So it's easy to find modified and adjustable stuff for them.

Offline EFI-Cuda

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2006 - 06:56:44 PM »
The Mustang's computer system is an affordable option.  The computer system and the wiring harness on my Cuda were junk yard items as were a few of the sensors.   It doesn't get much cheaper than that.  

The Ford mass air computer system is great because the computer knows how much air is getting into the motor and uses this information along with the information from it's other sensors to control the engine with excellent performance and factory reliability.   After all, it is a factory system.    302, 340, 360, or 440 it doesn't really matter as long as the engine has the right sized injectors, throttle body and mass air sensor.   As long as the mass air sensor is big enough to flow the cfm of air that your engine needs and the fuel injectors can support enough fuel to satisfy your engine's fuel requirements, the computer can do it's job just fine.

I had a feeling that I was going to eventually push the envelope and supercharge my Cuda's engine, so I went way overboard when building my fuel system.   My fuel system (injectors, fuel lines, fuel pump, fuel filter and fuel pressure regulator) cost me much more than the computer system did.    My fuel delivery system can support 800HP.   This is not necessary for injecting a mild naturally aspirated small block.  

Here is what my engine looked like when I was running my mild 360.   The conversion was reasonable and it has a tremendous potential for upgrading.


Cuda 408, Ford EFI, Magnum heads, Vortech V-2 Si-Trim, A-518 transmission and 3.23 gears.

Offline 57hemicuda

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2006 - 08:36:03 PM »
The LS1 system my Cuda runs is also Factory GM parts i got off of ebay.I've done a bunch of the LS1 harnesses and set ups for early muscle cars so I know the systems pretty well,and I love the coil over plug set up.It is alittle labor intensive because you have to machine the crank and cam reluctor rings to work for your application,and build an interface module to convert the signal.I put the set up on a stock 5.7hemi longblock,installed a cam and headers and went out and ran 12.400 on 18" toyo radials.There is a good bit left,but with the pcm rev limiter set in a safe place,I really think you would have to try hard to actually hurt the thing,and its totally OBD2 compatible,so anybody could service it

Offline moper

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2006 - 09:50:48 AM »
Now that's just plain Kick Azz... :2thumbs:

Offline Grundy

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2006 - 11:00:26 AM »
I think i've got all the mechanicals covered. The thing i'm working on is the ignition and distributor. I'm trying to piece off the shelf items together to "make" the tfi fit to the regular mopar distributor. I understand the need for a larger diameter distributor head for crossfire, etc.

What is the difference between a basic ford/mopar/any make distributor. The function is the same, it's only the gear (or lack of) at the bottom, shape, firing order.. they're all spinning inside distributing charge to a spark plug.. correct? So how do we make a TFI module work on a mopar distributor? If i figure it out first.. i'll post it.
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Offline 72hemi

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2006 - 11:49:39 AM »
I don't understand why people are running the Ford system. I have a bunch of friends who have fox body mustangs with 5.0 and turbo 4 cyl. cars and most of them say the mopar system is far superior to the ford, and many have switched their systems to mopar systems.  ??? ??? ???
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Offline 57hemicuda

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2006 - 01:24:55 PM »
Thats a new one on me,What Mopar system?They don't have a system thats programable

Offline Grundy

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2006 - 06:52:08 AM »
Nor do they have one that's mass-air.

Never-the-less... I believe I've found out what makes a Ford distributor a TFI distributor. Inside the distrib is a pick-up coil which creates a magnetic field (hall effect) this PIP sensor is tied to the TFI module, exterior of the distributor. Now, the TFI module can either be mounted on the cap, or remotely. The TFI is plugged directly into the ford wiring harness.

This is the PIP sensor: http://www.e-webcatalog.com/wells/PartForm.aspx?Part_no=F122;000100&Manuf_No=NA

This is the TFI module: http://www.e-webcatalog.com/wells/PartForm.aspx?Part_no=F121;000100&Manuf_No=NA

Now, I haven't tried this yet, but I intend to. The theory is this, if you're going to put the mass air system from a ford 5.0L mustang into your e-body, and you're going to use all the wires, ignition coil, etc, you still need to interface the TFI and the distributor. Will the guts of the Ford ignition, described above, fit into a Chrysler distributor? Theoretically, if everything physically fits under the cap, it will work. If you have to go with a larger cap, you should be able to get an adapter cap with the larger diameter head.

Something like this: http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&productId=216434&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=&showValue=1&JegsPopup=ProductDisplayPopup

Now all the three parts I've shown come to about $70. If it works, it's a super easy, cheap setup. Unfortunately, I don't have any of this in my posession yet, but i'm going to give it a shot. Has anyone else tried this? (I doubt it from the lack of information on the web)

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Offline moper

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Re: The Ford 5.0 Mass-air system
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2006 - 07:55:55 AM »
I cant help you there. I'd probably try to use a cam sensor instead of the distibutor pick up for that same square wave pulse. That ford module needs to be cooled by the contact between the dist housing and the metal on the back of it too. So just hanging it  off a Mopar distributor may lead to premature failure.