8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?

Author Topic: 8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?  (Read 12838 times)

Offline Robb_Scottsdale

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8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« on: September 03, 2003 - 12:17:47 PM »
I bought the Suregrip additive at the Dodge dealer last week

I told him it was for my 70 Challenger....

what they gave me was a little 5oz (?) bottle.  .  I thought it came in quart sizes and was premixed, etc.  I told the guy I needed gear oil too (Id seen Mopar gear oil in the catalogs) and the parts man told me, just go get some 90 wt gear oil from autozone, add the additive, and Id be ready to rock.

sounded good untill..........

Until he then went on to tell me about his old hotrod....   blah blah blah, yeah he used to have a Hemi Cuda....  (pause....)  440 motor, 6pak... 4 speed, metallic purple.  That he bought for 1000$ and sold for over $50,000 blah blah blah.

obviously that set off some warning signals to me.   ::) So now Im questioning his advice on the gear oil. :P

What Gear oil do I really need, and how much, a web-search didnt give me any answers.
'68 Sport Satellite Convertible (383/4) (B5 blue) Survivor
'70 Challenger SE (383/2) (EK2 orange ) Survivor with light Perf Mods
'98 Ram 1500 Sport Club-Cab 4x4 (360) (all-black) 3in lift, 33x12.




Offline oldvamoparfan

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2003 - 08:52:31 PM »
Go ahead & use the gear oil.  Any name brand 90w or 80/90 w/ the additive will take care of your SG unit.  This is pretty much true of all posi units except for spools, which have no clutches or spider gears.  You would be amazed at how many people have no idea whatsoever what a hemi is or looks like.  I have a 360 in my '65, & every show we attend, several people will ask if it is a hemi.
'72 Challenger 360,  '05 Dakota,   04 Town & Country,   '82 Yamaha 650 Maxim

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2003 - 05:23:06 AM »
I use the Castrol syntech 90W & the additive

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Robb_Scottsdale

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2003 - 01:04:43 PM »
Excellent !    I feel much better now.  Thanks guys.

I ordered a new yoke last week (it just shipped, didnt want to do the 2 sized Ujoint) so if Im lucky I should have it all back together again  and rolling  Monday or Tuesday.   Seems like I spend 10X more time waiting on parts than actually working on the darn thing.   Its still fun though, and I always feel confident about the decisions with the extra time so there is some value there.
'68 Sport Satellite Convertible (383/4) (B5 blue) Survivor
'70 Challenger SE (383/2) (EK2 orange ) Survivor with light Perf Mods
'98 Ram 1500 Sport Club-Cab 4x4 (360) (all-black) 3in lift, 33x12.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2003 - 04:32:20 AM »
Ummm the yolks can hjave either the 10 or 29 spline I hope you checked before you ordered it

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Robb_Scottsdale

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2003 - 12:53:09 PM »
Yep I did.   ;D

had a 10 in the old pumpkin.   new pumkin is 29

Was hoping orignally that I would have just put the old yoke on the new pumkin.   New yoke was only 35$ thank goodness


Anyone Got any BKM (best known methods) for torquing down the new yoke onto the pumkin assembly while its out of the car ?  or should I just do it with the tires on the ground...    (it wants to spin)   230ftlbs or something right ?

Had to have the driveline shop remove the original yoke off the new pumkin since I was there with the driveshaft anyway.
'68 Sport Satellite Convertible (383/4) (B5 blue) Survivor
'70 Challenger SE (383/2) (EK2 orange ) Survivor with light Perf Mods
'98 Ram 1500 Sport Club-Cab 4x4 (360) (all-black) 3in lift, 33x12.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2003 - 01:09:16 PM »
which pumpkin?
 the 742 can be torqued with an air impact , you need to be very careful with a 489 though , if you used a new crush sleeve it will need to be torqued until the sleeve starts to crush the crushed until the correct rotational drag is reached , if it is a used crush sleeve you nreed to torque it until the correct drag is reached without crushing the sleeve any more

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Robb_Scottsdale

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2003 - 01:25:12 PM »
oohhhhhhhhh   :o


Its a used crush sleeve and a 489

how would I measure drag ?  

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

edit:

found this below lists several options,  not sure what I should do now though....     I have NO IDEA what the rotational drag was before it was dissaembled.

found this:
Using a new crush collar or preload shim pack, set the pinion rotating torque to 10-15 (used bearings) 20-25 (new bearings) inch pounds.


looks like I need to rent a Biger Impact Wrench and also an inch pounds  Torq Wrench

=-=-=-=-=-=-==-


Mike Eaton, Minot, Nd, 71 Dodge Charger 318

I Had My Rearend Rebuilt Recently
(489 Casting With richmond 4.10 Gears, Has 10 Spline Yolk And The Big U-joint)
And I have Crosthreaded One Of The Holes That Secures The Strap To The Pinion Yolk and Canot Get A Bolt In Straight. I Would Like To Know If I Can just Buy A New Pinion Yolk, Torque It To 240 Ft/lb And Call It Good, just Replace Crush Sleve With A Solid Non-crush Sleve With New yolk And Torque To 240 Ft/lbs, Or Do I Have To Buy A New "crush" Sleve and Have The Patern On The Teeth Set Up Again? Is A Solid Non Crush Sleve recomended On Street Cars? I Am Not Too Familiar With Working On Rear Ends. thanks, Any Help Is Apreciated Greatly


Mike, first of all, I wouldn't be so quick to pull the yoke off at all. I think there's enough meat there to simply drill it out an Heli-coil it. It's standard 1/4"-28 SAE (fine) thread.

Failing that, here's the basic procedure: You must measure the turning torque before you pull the yoke. To get anything repeatable, the drums must be removed - no big deal. Then you must turn the yoke with a low-range inch-pounds torque wrench on the pinion nut and record the reading. The actual number isn't important as long as you are confident that it was set correctly by the builder. The reason is that now you are reading the turning torque with the diff and axles in place, which creates quite a bit of 'drag'.

Now install the new yoke and torque the nut to 170 ft./lbs. Then re-measure the turning torque. If it's back to the number your recorded, you're done. If not, keep tightening the nut in 20 ft./lb. increments until you reach the recorded number, but not tighter than 240 ft./lbs.

If you never reach the target number, simply remove the yoke again, pop out the pinion seal and front bearing, then slide out the collapsible spacer (sleeve). Install a new spacer, the original bearing (cone and roller assembly), and a new seal, which should be the same brand as the one you removed (a different seal would have a different amount of drag, throwing off your turning-torque readings). Then repeat the procedure in the paragraph above.

Solid spacers are 100% streetable, and greatly simplify this procedure - it then becomes just a nuts-'n'-bolts deal, no measuring required - same as a #741 or 742 pig. You could even do this now, but you'd need to mess with the shims to recapture that original turning torque, which would be a helluva hassle with the pig still in the car.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2003 - 03:42:59 PM by Robb_Scottsdale »
'68 Sport Satellite Convertible (383/4) (B5 blue) Survivor
'70 Challenger SE (383/2) (EK2 orange ) Survivor with light Perf Mods
'98 Ram 1500 Sport Club-Cab 4x4 (360) (all-black) 3in lift, 33x12.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2003 - 01:54:46 AM »
Fun Huh ::)

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Robb_Scottsdale

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2003 - 10:13:10 AM »
Got it all back together last night after wating 2 weeks on the New yoke to show up and then waiting on the inch/pounds beam style torque wrench to arrive too.    

No time or energy last night for a test drive.  probably after work today.    

Geez what a freaking mess, between Gear oil, tranny fluid (from driveshaft being out for 2 weeks, 20 years of road grime, brake dust, bearing grease, etc.....    ecch.  I was practically swimming in it by the looks of me in the mirror last night.  :-X


I only had the car on jackstands high up enouhg for me to get under the car reasonably.  I can tell you guys now that it is a bad way to try to reinstall a 8-3/4 center chunk into position.  No way to fit a jack under it  :-\ Finally got smart and used a plastic car-ramp to slide it up to the axle housing, then used some 1"X2" pieces of wood to levarage it and get it on the studs after some wrestling.

Rest was a piece of cake, just time consuming under a dim light and in a hot, densely-packed garage.  Axles went in all the way on the first try, adjusting endplay was a cinch, and Im now a "pro" at drum brake disassembly and reassembly now.    ::)

Other than getting the diff in place like I had to, yeah it was still "Fun".   But Im glad I dont have to do it again tonite !  haha

Thanks again everyone for all the help !!!   Ill edit/update this post with a road report later....
'68 Sport Satellite Convertible (383/4) (B5 blue) Survivor
'70 Challenger SE (383/2) (EK2 orange ) Survivor with light Perf Mods
'98 Ram 1500 Sport Club-Cab 4x4 (360) (all-black) 3in lift, 33x12.

Offline Robb_Scottsdale

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2003 - 01:30:24 PM »
Everything went to HADES on this project... grrrr   >:(



Thirdmember I bought off eBay was making noises after I started driving it.   Went as far as down the street to the gas station and back and I took it all apart again.

Driveline shop that did my driveshaft quoted me $1100 to rebuild third member (yeah, no installation and axle setup  or anything like that included in that price....  I took it in as the chunk).  And  not including a new sure-grip in that either, just for a bearing overhaul and  new Ring and Pinion gears to be safe, I guess .    

Im getting good at R&Ring third members anyway.....

 ::) ??? ::) ??? ::)
'68 Sport Satellite Convertible (383/4) (B5 blue) Survivor
'70 Challenger SE (383/2) (EK2 orange ) Survivor with light Perf Mods
'98 Ram 1500 Sport Club-Cab 4x4 (360) (all-black) 3in lift, 33x12.

Offline heminut

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2003 - 07:48:03 PM »
That sounds kinda high to me! Anyone else think so? ???
1970 5.7 Hemi Cuda

Offline Robb_Scottsdale

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2003 - 09:31:51 PM »
Did some pricing....

even Summit Racing is just 300$  in parts....   for RP Gears and Master Rebuild kit....

that leaves the labor charge at  $800   (12 hours ?)

SO .....   I decided this morning Im not having that shop do it.    ;)  

instead I just said to Heck with it and bought an all new gears and guts 742 unit for the same price from a big shop in Mopar Action magazine.   It will be here next week ready to install.     :D




'68 Sport Satellite Convertible (383/4) (B5 blue) Survivor
'70 Challenger SE (383/2) (EK2 orange ) Survivor with light Perf Mods
'98 Ram 1500 Sport Club-Cab 4x4 (360) (all-black) 3in lift, 33x12.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2003 - 03:05:14 AM »
Sounds like a better plan , $800 in labor is way too much

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Robb_Scottsdale

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Re:8-3/4 Gear oil, suregrip, what the right stuff ?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2003 - 02:12:20 PM »
So It gets better.....

When I dropped it off at the shop I told the guy all I probably needed was to have the pinion preload reset and maybe a new crush sleeve, we chatted about that for a while, and discussed the noises it was making, and then the guy told me he was going to "dissasemble it all, and take a look, and then give me an estimate based on what he finds"

The message I got on the phone was "It needed a total rebuild"

I picked it up last night from the shop.  As Im loading it into my truck, he says:   "oh by the Way, I didnt disassemble it at all, since I couldnt see or feel anything obvious, if you want to, re-install it in your car and bring it on by, and Ill listen to it for you...  "  

UGGGGH !  >:(

and cause of that phonecall, now I have a whole new frickin unit being shipped to me from another place, and it wasnt cheap.  

And Im still sure its just the pinion gear preload setting thats really the problem with this one ...    ::)


« Last Edit: September 19, 2003 - 02:13:15 PM by Robb_Scottsdale »
'68 Sport Satellite Convertible (383/4) (B5 blue) Survivor
'70 Challenger SE (383/2) (EK2 orange ) Survivor with light Perf Mods
'98 Ram 1500 Sport Club-Cab 4x4 (360) (all-black) 3in lift, 33x12.