1970 Challenger - Questions About Bumblebee Stripe and Paint Blackouts

[70_challenger]

Hello.  Thanks to everyone who replied to my 'noob' thread.  I have used the 'Search' function to look up several items, and there are still a few questions for which I could not find an answer...

I am painting my 70 Challenger EV2 Hemi Orange, and I want to use the rear blackout and 'bumblebee' stripe. 

Question #1: From what I've read, the tail-light panel is painted Organisol, and I have located a PPG paint code for it (The picture attached below shows it painted on).  However, in looking through the engineering drawing (http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/engineeringDrawings/ei038.jpg), it appears that the paint should not cover the whole panel, because there is a 'color break' line.  In other words, the black paint should only be ABOVE the green line I drew on the picture below, and everything BELOW that line should be body color.  (The body color would show beneath the tail lights, not the black).  Can anyone confirm if I'm understanding that right?

Question #2: Acording to that same engineering drawing (http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/engineeringDrawings/ei038.jpg), the top color break for that tail panel blackout should '...follow centerline of molding holes'.  Does anyone have a good picture of this color break, so I can see where to tape off the paint? 

Question #3:  The 'bumblebee stripe' will be painted V9X (black).  From the pictures I got from Alaskan_TA, it looks like the stripes are painted glossy.  What paint code should I get to paint these on?  Is it the regular gloss black that they painted car bodies with?

Question #4:  I am going to use the hood blackout on my 'RT' style hood.  (A sample picture of this type of hood and blackout appears below).  The bodyshop would like to paint this on, due to prior bad experience with decals.  Does anyone have dimensions of this blackout?  Does anyone know what type of paint would be used, to replicate the semi-gloss appearance of the factory decal?

Thank you SO much for your information.  I have learned more from this site in a few short evenings than I could have imagined.   

Tom

[Chryco Psycho]

2- on the end of the fender the chrome moulding sits on the body , there are I believe 3 holes there you want mask across the center of these holes so the black is on one side of the moulding & the body color on the other side
3- the Bee stripe was Painted first & then un masked after the rest of the car is painted , any body color was availble for the Bee stripe so X9 would be glossy , I am not sure If you could order the car with an organisol black stripe ?
4- Barry & others shoudl have some Good pix where the blackout locates , I would use Organasol again it will be easier to take care of than the 100% flat black , I am not sure if the decal was flat black or 70% flat like organisol

[Alaskan_TA]

The tail panels on 1970 Challengers were only painted organisol on the Challenger T/As.

If you do not care about originallity for you car I can get you some photos of the paint breaks.

For the hood, get the decal and have a good sign shop apply it after your painter does the car if you painter is not comforatable applying them.

Barry

[70_challenger]

Barry:
Thank you again for your quick reply.  So the Organosol was only offered on the T/A in 1970?  Hmm...I thought it was an option on all Challengers, since I see it on so many R/T cars.  In fact, the Dodge advertisement attached below appears to show it on a base model, which is why I selected it.   I am still learning...

Anyway - I am somewhat concerned with originality.  However, my fender tag shows that my car is a gold base model, with a 318, bench seat, and column shifter.  In fact, it is an orange car, with a 440, bucket seats, and a console shifter.  Basically, I am trying to make the car as I would have ordered it in 1970 (with the exception of my bumblebee stripe idea, which I know was not offered on the base model).  Basically, I want the back of the car to look like the yellow car I attached below (Organosol tail panel, gloss black BB stripe).

If you have pictures of that color break line (where the tail panel wraps into the trunk), that would be very helpful.

Thanks again!

Tom

[Alaskan_TA]

The one in the top photo has the SE rear aluminum trim that is painted argent. Let me look through my photo stash for a good paint break into the trunk photo.....

[Alaskan_TA]

Here you go. Notice the "kink" in the middle, this is an original paint T/A. The blackout was masked by hand, so from the factory the mask lines are rarely perfect;

[70_challenger]

Very informative - Thank you.

I am still a little confused by the lower color break of this tail panel blackout.  Most cars have the whole panel black, although the engineering drawing shows a color break in the middle.

Below, I have attached a picture from the challengertaregistry.com website, and I edited it to show where I think the color break should be.   Does this seem right?  (All apologies to the owner of this fine looking T/A - It was the only close-up picture of the tail panel I could find...)

[DAYLEY/CHALLENGER]

Hey Tom..I get around too I am posting a couple of pics of the SE trim panel that was/will be on mine when finished.  The painted area you are talking about is about the same area, I think.  Anyway some pics..David

http://big-dog.us/challenger/images/Albums/12/scan0001.html

And one more...keep in mind this was taken in 1971.  Thats my wife...I kept her all these years..glad I did. Wish I had the car too...

[Alaskan_TA]

On the T/As the blackout included the bumper filler extention, you should not see any body color in this area at all. The engineering drawing does not show how the T/As were actually done. 

Since you are evidently after the same look, you would want to do the same thing.

A black Bee stripe will look goofy with a black tail panel though, at least to me. The stripe will lose definition.

Barry

[TreeFrog]

Hood Black-out

I was looking into them last night and ran into an interesting difference that I had forgotten.

on the Challenger hood blackout the decal continues toward the windshield on each side of the cowl vent.  it looks like two tabs. However all newer pics I see show it stopping even on top of the bulge.

Input?

[70challrtse]

Here is a pic of my RTSE, which I believe is mostly correct except for the fact that the seconary stripe on the bumble bee stripe is too wide.

[70challrtse]

This is a better pic. Notice how the sripe tucks under fender.

[70challrtse]

Opps, the pic must have been too large. Trust me it tucks under.

[70_challenger]

Dayley: Thanks again, and I think you are correct - It is the same painted area, although the SE is Astrotone, instead of Organosol.  The way your car is painted matches the engineering drawing.

Barry: You are correct about the actual cars not matching the drawing.  You can see in the Challenger brochure (below), that the paint does indeed cover the whole tail panel (as you said), not just the area shown in the drawing.  Maybe they made a change before production started?  It seems that the cars with Astrotone (SE) match the drawing, while the other cars don't (although you can see that the drawing calls out 'Organosol')   
You can also see in the brochure that they have the black tail panel on the R/T, and with the bumblebee stripe.  So I think I will go ahead with this combination.

TreeFrog: I have not seen these tabs that you referred to.  Any pictures? 

Thanks again!
Tom

[TreeFrog]

if you have the Barracuda & Challenger Book by Paul C Zazarine they are in there

I remember them from long ago (Late 80's), but have not seen any in a long time either...but I seldome see an E-Bod in person