1970 Challenger - Questions About Bumblebee Stripe and Paint Blackouts

[Challenger6pak]

Barry,  Chrysler thought a black bumble bee stripe and black rear tail panel were not a good idea either.  I believe if you ordered a black bee stripe the tail panel was left body color on an R/T.  Do you know of any documentation either way?

[Alaskan_TA]

I will say it again. 

The only Challengers with blacked out tail panels in 1970 were the T/As. The rest were painted body color.

The only exception would be a black car, but of course the tail panel on those was glossy.

Barry

[Alaskan_TA]

PlumCrazy is right, that was the 1971 drawing, here is the 1970 tail panel black out drawing;

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/engineeringDrawings/ei036.jpg

[Challenger6pak]

I will say it again. 

The only Challengers with blacked out tail panels in 1970 were the T/As. The rest were painted body color.

The only exception would be a black car, but of course the tail panel on those was glossy.

Barry

That is what I was getting at.  Do you know if the S/E tail panel molding was ever available in black?

[Alaskan_TA]

From the factory, the rear tail panel molding was astrotone whether it came on an SE, Western Sport Special or other Challenger model with the A63 molding group.

Here is the engineering drawing for the Challenger hood decal;

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/engineeringDrawings/ei020.jpg

[Challenger6pak]

I asked because what would happen if the molding group was ordered on a T/A.  Or was that unavailable on T/A's.  I ask because I know of a T/A this way and wonder if Chrysler or a previous owner did the black.  Thanks for letting me pic your brain.
Tod

[70_challenger]

No - I did not realize that was a 1971 drawing.  Other than the March-1970 date, how can you tell? 

Barry:  I don't want to belabor the issue... , but:
The Dodge advertisement on page 1 of this thread shows a black tail panel on a base Challenger (since the back window is regular size, I presume it is not an SE).  And the Dodge brochure on page 1 of this thread clearly shows a black tail panel and bumblebee stripe on the R/T.  I'm not doubting your statement about the T/A, but it looks like that black tail panel was available on other models.  Either way, I'm using it, but I like to learn as much as possible.

I saw that hood decal drawing.  That certainly clarifies the shape - I still wish I had the dimensions!

Thanks for all the input guys. 

[Alaskan_TA]

I do know of a T/A with the tail panel, but it was added to the car years ago. They were not available.

As far as the pre-production photos in the ads, it was common to see things that they thought of that did not make it onto the production cars. 

Let me crop on of the drawings so I can illustrate the 1970 vs. 1971 models in the notes, back soon......

[Challenger6pak]

I have a NOS hood blackout decal here.  I'll see where it is and take a measurment for you.  Might take a couple of days.

[Alaskan_TA]

OK, take a look at the section underlined in the image below.

F is the series (model year) 1970

G is the series (model year) 1971

B is Barracuda

J is Challenger

So the drawing I cropped this section from applies to 1970 and 1971 Barracudas and Challengers.

(It has no correlation to this thread at all, I wanted to find a different drawing to explain the Barracuda angle.)

[70_challenger]

Barry:
Thanks for the information about the drawing codes...That clarifies things nicely.

Oh, the things you can learn in a short time around here!   

6pak:  That would be very much appreciated.

I am going to (again) hijack my own thread...What about the radiator support?  Again, the engineering drawings show it blacked out (http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/engineeringDrawings/ei003.jpg), but all the cars I see have varying amounts of black (or undercoating) in that area.  I don't think I've ever seen a car completely blacked out, as shown in the drawing.  Any thoughts?

Tom

[TreeFrog]

Tom,

I really was not trying to hi-jack your thread...honest I was not...You hit on a point of interest with me, on the BB Stripe, and Blackout.

I remember in the 80's all I saw were the extended hood decals, maybee they were all painted aftermarket style, but they looked genuine, and I do not know if they were paint, or decal....

I have seen every combination of BB Stripe known to man. with and without blacked out tail pannel...dunno there either

as far as trying to question the author..here is the responce...about as useful as the books themselves...

James,
 
I sure wish I could assist you on your question. I don't have my notes and files on this book handy (It's stored away in an archive box in a storage facility). I can tell you that all my information was documented before I published it, I just can't recall where the information came from.
 
Happy New Year!
 
Paul
 
Paul Zazarine
2500 Winding Creek Blvd #D204
Clearwater, FL 33761
941-586-7924
www.paulzazarine.c

[70_challenger]

Of course you didn't hijack the thread - The hood blackout was part of the question.  I actually changed direction a couple of times during the thread, thus hijacking it myself. 

I got that Zazarine book the other day ($4.58 used from Amazon).  I'm glad I did not spend more than that, for some nice glossy pictures and little else.  Maybe one day we can all make the 'C-C.com Definitive Guide to Restoring the Dodge Challenger and Plymouth Cuda'.   

Does anyone have any thoughts on the radiator support blackout?

Thanks!
Tom

[Challenger6pak]

What I remember in the 80's is that the cars started to be redone and decals were not available.  I have seen the extended black outs also.  Someone did it and others followed.  I have a neighbor who is a retired assembly line worker.  He did the 68 Camaro at many positions on the line.  It is very interesting to talk to him.  I would love to find a Mopar guy like that.  

[PlumCrazy]

What about the radiator support?  Again, the engineering drawings show it blacked out (http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/engineeringDrawings/ei003.jpg), but all the cars I see have varying amounts of black (or undercoating) in that area.  I don't think I've ever seen a car completely blacked out, as shown in the drawing.  Any thoughts?

The drawings show what the intended outcome was to be, you also need the Material and Process specs to determine what materials (masks, tools etc.) were need to preform the task.  In addition the human factor has to be added so no two cars were ever the same.