452 Castings + 2.14 Intake...

[440Charger]

Now that I know (thx to Chryco) that I have 452 casting heads on my 440, I read this article:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/5115_cylinder_heads/

saying that it's an open-chamber design which is not the design you want to
create the Quench effect.  So it seems like 452 casting has lower resistance to detonation....is that correct? Could that be a problem with 9.8:1 CR?

Also the article talked about velocity and port sizes.  Basically it says that if you install "sewer pipe" size intake ports, you'll lose velocity and have a sluggish low end (assuming the engine isn't built for it) and you'll leave a diluted mixture left in the chamber.  On my 440, using my Lunati 480/230@.50, would my 2.14 intake port be regarded as "sewer pipe" in anyones opinion? 

If my engine design is flawed because of the 2.14 intake being too big...would switching out my M1 dual plane for a Street Dominator help use that larger port?  I'll be upping to a hp fuel pump this spring (carter 120/gph) because we're running lean now and jetting didn't help at all.

My current setup:
750 Speed Demon
M1 Dual-Plane intake
Lunati cam: http://www.holley.com/00032.asp
452 unported heads (2.14/1.81)
Headers

[go-fish]

I can't answer all of your questions but I can say if you want to start reducing the chances of detonation then statrt with getting some closed chambered heads. I would guess that 9.8cr would be alright but CP will probably get you some good answers.
I know it always seems like the answer is to buy some high dollar parts but sometimes buying a good set of heads is what the doctor calls to order.
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=28342.0
8 PACK is selling a set of Stage VI heads for $1,150.00. Assemble the heads and get a proper intake for your cam and your're in business. BTW, that is a deal.

[v8440]

Well, valve size and port size are not quite the same thing.  When they say port size, they're talking about the ports in the head, not valve size.  You won't be killing off any real amount of torque with stock ports just by installing 2.14" valves, and will probably gain a bit of flow.  As for quench, your 9.8:1 ratio might be problematic without any quench, or it might not.  Cam specs and cooling system abilities figure in here. 

To get quench, you don't necessarily need new heads.  There are pistons out there designed with the combustion chamber shape of heads like yours in mind.  They go out of their way to shape the top of the piston such that it approaches the head closely enough to produce good quench.  But, like I said you may not have any detonation problems at all.

[440Charger]

Thanks for the responses.

Something is killing my top end.  I did a chasis dyno about a year ago and the only difference was that I had a Carter AFB 750.  The power curve started falling off after 4700rpm.  And since my cam is rated 2500-6000 according to Lunati, something is out of wack.  CP and others have mentioned that the intake is a mismatch.

[v8440]

I don't know what an m1 dual plane ought to pull to, but I THINK it would be higher than 4700.  An intake that always seems to do well is a performer rpm.  They make power to 6500 or so-I've personally experienced that.

[Dave-R]

Keith Black do a piston just for open chamber mopar heads. They have a large "D" shaped raised portion that exactly fills the quench area in the head. If you set the deck height so that you get just 40 thou clearence between the piston and the quench area of the head you get perfect quench. Probablt around the 10:1 compression ratio though.

Sometimes just a 20 thou thich steel head gasket gets you set up right.

[440Charger]

8 PACK is selling a set of Stage VI heads for $1,150.00. Assemble the heads and get a proper intake for your cam and your're in business. BTW, that is a deal.

Are these for street driving or racing or both?

[moper]

You say power "fell off". At what number? How much power does it make now? what was torque rpm peak and  peak value?

[440Charger]

The power curve didn't dive, it just peaked at about 4700rpm and went steadily down from there.  I'm looking for the disk they gave me with all the #'s but I can't find it right now.  The max torque was 400+. 

With a cam rated for 2500-6000 that's kinda wack isn't it?  I'll probably dyno it again with the speed demon 750 and the hp fuel pump I'm getting.

[moper]

well, the torque reading is really the tell all. Horse Power is just figured from that number by the dyno software anyway. I can say I think it's down on power definately. Was the cam degreed? Who built the engine? What was done machining wise? Can you take a compression test and post the results? As far as vale choice and fule issues..if you cant change a value by changing jets, it tells me the air bleeds are too big in your carb. But they may be fine, and your engine has issues. So first things first.

[440Charger]

The cam was installed at at centerline.  A friend of ours who's been building engines for many years helped my dad and I build this.  Regarding machine work, the block was blue printed and the parts were all balanced.  Either the deck or heads were shaved enough to ensure the heads would sit flush (it's been 2 years, cant remember).  The heads had the larger valves put in along with the valve job but no porting.

I can do a compression test, but unfortunately the car is in storage...one of the crappy things about living in MN.  And I agree, this engine has issues lol.  The thing is, we got this car put together after 5 years and have been driving it for two summers now....and now I'm trying to diagnose all this..kinda late I know but oh well.  I'm tired of retarding the timing so bad that it runs like 

After I read your comment about the air bleeds I called a local carb shop and asked him what he'd charge to change them and he told me he'd just buy a Holley instead lol.  He wanted a few hundred to do that.

[440Charger]

Well I found the dyno numbers but I don't trust them.  On our final run I'm seeing max STP power at 282.5 at 4799rpm and STP max torque at 355 at 3460rpm. 

[Chryco Psycho]

the power #S sound typical for rear wheel power
 porting the heads will definatly help make use of the larger valves  ,without the porting you will not see much gain going to the street dom will also imporve power & raise the power curve , did you try running on the dyno without the Aircleaner ? I have seen big restrictions there in the past
I agree with above , the larger valve has no bearing on Port size &or volume , the production heads have small ports
usually 9.8:1 compression without Quench is a problem , i have seen low 9:1 comp engines ping using open chamber head which is why I dislike them , closed chambers & quench Works 

[440Charger]

Yeah but the rpm peak is what bothers me...4700 when the cam is rated for 2500-6000, which is about a 2200rpm window of power, indicates a problem somewhere.  The M1 dual plan is rated to 5500 I think.  Just driving there is an obvious power drop off before 5000, so bad that there really is no point to keeping it in 1st gear so I usually shift early...you hear the engine rev but feel no pull.  Same with 2nd gear.  3rd isn't a problem because at that point I'm well over 100mph and I don't want to wrap myself around a telephone pole 

I never made a dyno run without the air cleaner.  Were using a small diameter housing with a clean K&N air filter.

I'd like to try the street dom, but first we're going to replace the cheap-o stock pump install the hp pump (carter 120gph).  I also followed the fuel line to check for restrictive bends and only found one U-shaped metal tube we're using right after the pump which is maybe a foot away from the carb.  I'm wondering if the 5/16 lines could be a problem...?  I heard that 440's had 3/8 lines.

As far as heads go, it's too late to change them so I have to work with the 452's and get as much as I can with them.

[moper]

There's nothing typical about a 340hp (282x 1.2 to convert to crankshaft output) 440 with a cam, intake, carb and the like. That just plains stinks. The fact that it runs and has been driven only means the oil system is working. IMO not much else is. I would say you have bigger issues. I would do a leak down test first off. If the rings are sealing (which i question) then pull the top end and have them done by someone who will do the right job for you. UD is a good cam, and the package isnt bad. I would be expecting to see at least 400hp from it. Keep in mind, that's not even 1hp per cu inch. You're at .77hp/inch now. A stock 318 2bbl made .72/inch. Your valve size has nothing to do wiht low performance. I run 2.14 intakes and 1.81 exh on all my big blocks. Even 383s unless they are getting 516 heads. No loss in low end at all. It's about how the whole thing works together.