440 dog

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    Author Topic: 440 dog  (Read 705 times)

    Offline 71chmark

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    440 dog
    « on: January 14, 2007 - 09:30:00 AM »
    I have a 440, torquer intake, old "purple hemi grind" cam (whatever that is), 346 heads and a 3.23 rear.  When I had it in my last car it seemed like a dog compared to the two 383 roadrunners I had long ago.  I need a new carb and was wondering what else I should look at changing without spending more than one or two thousand to make it more quick like a 383 in my 71 challenger 4 speed.  I'm not concerned about top end as this will just be an around town jump on it now and then car.  I love the big 440 sound and image so I don't want a 383.
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    I may be schizophrenic,
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    Offline Chryco Psycho

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    Re: 440 dog
    « Reply #1 on: January 14, 2007 - 09:56:35 AM »
    there are a ton of variables here , what year is the engine ?, what condidtion is the engine in ?, Have you done a compression test ?
     the Old Hemi grind was actally a good cam , it had .471 lift , the updated version is the .474 lift cam
    the easy gains with most engines are cam, intake, carb & exhaust  , the intake & cam are decent already , I would be looking at an 850 cfm Proform or Holley carb for it
     the problem could be as simple as a tight torque converter not letting the engine get into the its powerband before putting load on the engine so simply changing the torque converter could solve your problem so simply installing a 2400 rpm stall could fix the problem
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    Offline 71chmark

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    Re: 440 dog
    « Reply #2 on: January 14, 2007 - 12:30:41 PM »
    It's a 4 speed. 69 block with only a couple of thousand miles on a rebuild.  I've heard a dual plane produces more torque. Could this make it quicker?
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    Offline Chryco Psycho

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    Re: 440 dog
    « Reply #3 on: January 14, 2007 - 03:08:26 PM »
    It could increase the response at the low end of the powerband but the Torker is a decent intake & doesn`t give up a lot at the bottom & will pull better on the top end
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    Offline firefighter3931

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    Re: 440 dog
    « Reply #4 on: January 14, 2007 - 08:25:08 PM »
    Sounds like a descent combo of parts. My guess is that it needs to be tuned for performance, specificly the ignition curve. Time to play with the distributor.   :2cents:


    Ron
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    68 Charger RT street/strip Bruiser & 70 Charger RT 440-6pack the ultimate Cruiser

    Offline moper

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    Re: 440 dog
    « Reply #5 on: January 16, 2007 - 10:02:58 AM »
    Get a compression gage, and take readings from all cylinders with all the plugs out, the engine warmed up, and the carb wired open at full throttle. Post back your results.

    "rebuilt" doesnt mean "done right". And back in the days where "hemi grind" cams were used a lot, just buying the right parts didnt guarantee the thing ran well. I pulled apart a  "top of the line" 440. It had a dual plane aluminum intake, Ultradine cam, TRW domed forged pistons, and "all new valves" with maching springs. The pistons were way down in the bores (so compression was really 9.2:1), the honing was wrong for the rings used, so they never sealed well, the pistons were loose in thier bores by .003", the cam was isntalled by lining up dots, so when I checked, it was retarded 3°, the seats werent installed properly in the heads, and the valves were reused, along with springs on seats that were not cut to fit big springs. All decent parts, and all poor execution.
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    Offline Stacked440

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    Re: 440 dog
    « Reply #6 on: January 16, 2007 - 04:55:17 PM »
    :2cents:  if you have the standard carter on there, THROW IT OUT!  I have 3 international scouts and all of them had those on them.  Started hard, couldn't keep them running, sucked gas and was just a dog when you stepped on it.  I just installed a holley 4-bbl carb on my 79 scout 345, it now starts within a second of the key being turned, idles smooth and strong, and has not night and day but noticeable difference in get up and go.  I rebuilt a carter to go on my 440 but after seeing the improvement on my scout with a better carb, im gonna buy either a 670 or 770cfm holley street avenger carb for my challenger.  From the local auto parts store they run right around 400 bucks give or take 20 bucks.  Also, if the roadrunners had something like 4.10 rearends in them, that would explain why they would seem faster  :lol:
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    -Kyle-
    1971 Challenger R/T clone 440/5-spd
    1973 Duster - 5.7L Hemi swap project

    Offline v8440

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    Re: 440 dog
    « Reply #7 on: January 17, 2007 - 06:59:39 AM »
    I'm leaning toward too much cam for the compression on this one.  I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't get much over 115 pounds on a compression gauge if you did a test now.  Like the others said, check the ignition timing too.  It might help to put light advance springs in the distributor if it doesn't already have them.  This can also serve as a crutch to partially overcome too large of a cam for the application.  Finally, don't forget the carburetor.  On that, it would be best to use a wideband O2 sensor on the car.  You can buy those, or any chassis dyno will most likely have one.  It may be that the carburetor simply needs adjustment.
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