Author Topic: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...  (Read 9452 times)

Offline Blackcuda

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2007 - 07:15:10 PM »
BJ has become BS, 10% buyer fee, 8% seller fee plus all there other BS they charge you for. Creg Jackson and his people have become greedy. Now they have to sell musical instuments in the middle of a car auction.




Offline jeryst

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2007 - 09:57:00 PM »
BJ has become BS, 10% buyer fee, 8% seller fee plus all there other BS they charge you for.

Imagine you put your car up for auction and it doesn't come close to what you need to get out of it. Since the BJ auctions are "no reserve" your only option is to buy it back yourself. That means you pay the oringal auction fees, plus the 10% buyer fee, plus the 8% sellers fee. You've just lost 18-20% of the price of your car, or it's cost you 18-20% of the cars price to keep it. At least in most other auctions, if the car doesn't meet the reserve, you loose the initial auction fees, but that's it. The only ones that win at a Barrett-Jackson auction are Barrett and Jackson. What a racket! They've done more to harm the hobby, for the true gearhead, than any other single force.

Offline cooda

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2007 - 10:22:41 PM »
You also pay BJ an entry fee of up to $1200, plus an extra couple of hundred to get a spot under one of the tents. They have a little bit of competition now from Russo & Steele who have an auction in Scottsdale at the same time and have only a 5% seller's fee AND let you set a reserve. Maybe a little competition will do them good, as I agree that they are getting arrogant and greedy, and Speed is just a running endorsement for BJ. I'll bet a lot of Mopar sellers who feel they got burned won't be back at BJ next year.
70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
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Offline 1fastsixpack

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2007 - 08:46:40 AM »
  Just a thought,if a car brings 210,000 avg at BJ then out in the real world would it not bring less?? BJ has the reputation of setting the all time highest price. And if you want that price, you need to take your car there. I mean people always use BJ prices as a way to justify the price they want for there car. I think the investers are starting to pass on mopars thinking they have peaked and no short upside to owning one. I hope thinks are heading back to reality!  It would put alot more fun back in the hobby.

Offline Blackcuda

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2007 - 11:59:14 AM »
  Just a thought,if a car brings 210,000 avg at BJ then out in the real world would it not bring less?? BJ has the reputation of setting the all time highest price. And if you want that price, you need to take your car there. I mean people always use BJ prices as a way to justify the price they want for there car. I think the investers are starting to pass on mopars thinking they have peaked and no short upside to owning one. I hope thinks are heading back to reality!  It would put alot more fun back in the hobby.
The highest seller in BJ history was Carol Shelby's Super Cobra at $5 million, the record for a Shelby Cobra is I think $11 million. The two 71 Hemi Cuda covertibles owned by the same guy, were $5 and $4 million if I'm correct, not bought at BJ. So yes BJ has some influence, but record sales have taken place out side of B Jackson.
Also I find very interesting is, Jay Leno who is a Huge car collector and has some super rare cars does not buy at BJ. I think he's smart.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007 - 01:37:46 PM by Blackcuda »

Offline Oldschool

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2007 - 12:15:41 PM »
I think the recent prices at BJ will have an unsettling effect on the Mopar market for a little while.  BJ does have an effect on prices on the overall market for the next few months.  It will take a little time for folks to digest these new prices and figure out where to go from here.  The overall Mopar muscle car prices dipped, so the recreation market could change.  Will folks sell sooner if they think prices are going to dip lower and avoid more depreciation?  Who knows?  I hope this adjustment gets the prices back to where the average Joe can participate in the Mopar Muscle hobby again without having to mortgage the house to do it.  It will be interesting to see how BJ affects the prices of our cars for the next few months.....     :cooldancing: 

 Don't forget the "Ford Conspiracy Theory" in all of this.   If there is a grain of truth to that, it would sort of mean that the Mopar Muscle cars were artificially held down.  This would mean that the BJ prices are not representative of the market of these cars and the "real world" value is still up.  Gonna be fun to watch this stuff play out.........     :cooldancing:   
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007 - 12:25:51 PM by Oldschool »
Ken  --  In Georgia

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Offline KFD

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2007 - 02:14:45 PM »
I will add my 0.02 to this: I am glad that the Mopar prices will hopefully come back down. Yes, it sucks that some of the investors will lose their money, but what is an investment without risk?
I have always thought that if you want to invest in an automobile, stick to a car that was always a special car, Duesenbergs, Bugatti Atlantics, 1932 Caddy V-12 Ragtops, Tuckers. Those are the cars that you will never see at the quickie mart or Safeway, with three kids piled in the back. Granted, you wouldn't see some of beautiful examples of Mopar Muscle at those places either. However, back in 1970 and 1971, those were cars envisioned by Cheesborough, Brownlie and those fellas at Highland park to be one thing: A car. Just like a '74 Valiant sedan.

I find it absolutely disgusting that a hemi cuda convertible goes for millions, all due respects to the Blakes and the Wienmanns, even if they are worth their wieght in gold (I know, that statement is self defeating and oxymoronic!). The trickle down theory applies here.

Another point, is that the classic car hobby is the canary in the coal mine for our nation's economy. One can contend that statement is absolutely in left field, but think about it. While our economy might not be in the best shape now, it is definitly on the rebound from the recession of the nineties. Granted things were great in the late nineties, and decent Mopars could be had for a decent price. 9/11 put a dampner on things, but think about this: Greenspan raised the interest rates a few years ago to stimulate a stagnant economy, and to some extent it did lots of good.

Something else that gets me going, and Randy Shannon touched on this on the head in this month's Mopar Muscle is the future of our hobby. What this has to do with the 'investors' is that the future of this hobby can easily be a thing of the past. Yes, I know I sound like the guy that has the billboards walking about fifth avenue that read "the world will end soon!". The upper Echelon of society can afford these cars, and that will turn the younger fans away, simply because they can't afford their dream Mopar. I can only think of Goody and StreetChallenged73 and myself off the top of my head that are south of the 35 year old demographic that are posting on this board. Yes, there is more, but clearly the minority here. You have kids that eat, breathe, speak, mopar, (and an even smaller annointed few that actually can buy into the mopar hobby or are in it now) that will be turned away simply because it is financially out of reach. They will turn to other makes to flex their automotive vices, whether it be on two wheels, Japanese, or Porsche/Ferrari.

Something that really pisses me off since I am on my soapbox, is the arrogance of some 'investors'!! I am right here in Phoenix, right down the street from Barrett Jackson. I see these types at every car show. Lets think about this for a second. Some punk kid walks up to your car, and immedately goes for the fender tag, or makes comments on the three speaker dash your R/T rag has, do you think he might know what the expletive he is talking about? It really irritates me that some of these guys riding the wave of mopar financial excess don't know or care about the car they own! This cat a few months ago, was not interested in talking to me AT ALL! I would ask him a question, and he looked down his nose at me like I was talking gibberish!

I was under the impression that some of the European Sports car types are arrogant and, excuse my slang, but "hoity-toity".  I used to be a shop monkey in a Ferrari Shop in California. We didn't work on some pop star's 360, or his 430, or any overpriced FIATs, but real deal Ferraris, Four Cam 275s, SIATAS, PF cabs. Million dollar cars. These guys were obviously "well-heeled", but pretty nice dudes. A lot of the fellas that had cars there would always joke about my dodge I had, but would give me time of day for a decent conversation, even though I was the lowest guy at totem pole at that shop!

Some of the arrogance I have seen from these 'investors' just makes me angry, and makes me question the affinity I have had for Mopars since before I could drive. Coupled with the extravagant prices of these cars, I am starting to look elsewhere at other makes, and conclude that a Challenger (even in carcass parts car form  :banghead:) is inobtainable.

Mopars are regular cars-Shade tree mechanics work on those and tinker with them. They were designed to have the hell beat out of them, ran in to the ground, and keep running. Not collect dust under a cover in a garage!
 :working:= :burnout:

My Rant. Sorry to raise hairs or ostracize myself...

Later
KFD
Aprilia RSV 1000. Ask the man who owns one!

Offline hemi71

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2007 - 04:36:21 PM »
Kelly,

I just want to address your experiences with those "investor" types.

Those type people dont just buy Mopars, they buy all kinds of cars. To say you are getting turned off by mopars because of just a few a$$holes is a disservice to all of us who own these cars and have a true passion for them. I'll bet that 99% of the people who are on this board dont fit that mold of the snobby E-body owner that is becoming more prevalent, even amongst fellow Mopar owners.

I've been into these cars since i was 12 years old, my first street legal car was a 70 baracuda, my next Mopar will be #99 for me and I'll always have the time to discuss my ride with anybody who shows a genuine interest in the car. What I dont have time for is people who look at these cars as investments, and only care about how much they are going to appreciate in the next year, or the first question out of their mouth is "How much is it worth?"

I hate to see a "young gun" get such a bad taste from only a select few loosers...stick around here and you'll find there are many great people who own and love these cars and are willing to share that with you.

Offline torredcuda

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2007 - 04:58:53 PM »
 :iagree: It dosen`t matter what group it is-Corvette,Bugatti or Mopar there will always be a minority of snobby jerks around.Just ignore them and hang out with guys and gals like us and if you see a runny nose kid eating greasy fries tell him to go check out the nice man`s car!   :smilielol:
Jeff
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Offline Blackcuda

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2007 - 07:17:26 AM »
As long as there are car collectors, these price will continue to go up. Cudas and Challengers are hot, and just about any Muscle car that came out of the late sixties early seventies.
Just look what a restored 69 Camero, or Yenko or Copo clone went for at BJ. Now even the Mako shark body style Corvettes from 68-72 are bringing big bucks. Resto mod Muscle are hot becoming big sellers. It's not only the matching number documented cars anymore, and I think people are seeing that. Why pay 300k for an original matching numbers Hemi Cuda and be affaid to drive it, when you can buy a resto mod Hemi Cuda clone for alot less with for wheel disk brakes a 5 or 6 spd transmission and great handling that you can drive anywhere. And look at the people that buy these cars, they are not old men. Car collectors are all ages now, and some people just say Fu@k it. I like that car, I'm buying it no matter what it takes.

Offline willhaven

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2007 - 04:16:09 PM »
I just hope the market doesn't price me out of it by the time I'm ready to buy a car. I don't even want a numbers car, but finding a solid car that hasn't been cloned into something far more expensive will probably be like pulling teeth.

Would it be bad if I had to break down and get a Camaro or a Mustang instead?

I think I shouldn't speak of it. :)

Offline 1fastsixpack

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2007 - 08:03:00 AM »
 With some luck you are going to get priced into the market. No commodity goes up forever!! The investors have road this one out in my opinion,it was overdue for a crash.Also alot of the investors follow trends,they are the corvette guy who would never buy a mopar,but when mopars got to be the cars everyone was talking about,they crossed over and acted like they had been in mopars all their life. I think now they might be going after corvettes again not to mention fords and other gm products. As they leave the Mopar market and more mopars come on the market(which I  think is happening now!) We true Mopar hobbyist will be able to buy cars and parts at a more afforable prices again!! :cooldancing:

Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2007 - 10:31:53 AM »
Right now, there is a MARKET SATURATION of Hemi cars!

No question, they're rare, but not THAT rare!  Not like ZL-1 cars!

Hemi 'verts will always command high dollar, but Hemi hardtops...there's just too many of them.  And I think investors are getting savvy to the fact that there are a LOT of bogus, rebodied, re-tagged cars out there.  Extremely good fakes of protecto-plates and broadcast sheets are getting out there.

Plus...w/the market down on real estate, I'm thinking folks are looking to put their money there.
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Offline DAYTONA

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2007 - 04:59:02 PM »
...I have heard all of these same arguments before....

...I remember being put off by the guy asking $25K for a '70 HEMI CUDA conv at the MOPAR Nats....we thought he was nuts....I remember thinking $10K was an extremely high price to pay for a black HEMI CUDA hardtop with 10K miles, yes, I thought he was nuts too...I remember people laughing at me for paying $9K for a 10K mile one owner Daytona...the last Challenger T/A cost me over 20 times what I paid for the first one I bought in 1985... crazy, maybe...great investment, certainly...do I drive it, not much....at my age I drove 'em all new in 1970...do I wanna drive it, not really......where will the market end, it won't on quality pieces...it may take a breather from time to time, but it will continue as long as there is a market place for the cars

Offline cooda

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Re: Mopar sales prices down at BJ...
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2007 - 08:55:36 PM »
Some of the prices paid were pretty hard to understand:

Lot 1299 was a Hemi 4 door 66 Dodge Coronet. 4 door Hemi car is very unusual and uncommon to be sure, but it went for $ 660,000. Stupid IMO.

They really hyped this one- Lot 1285: the "Last Sting Ray" built- may be true, but is it worth the $ 660,000 somebody paid? 1967 390 horse 427 (4 barrel= lowest horesepower of the big block Corvettes for that year) coupe. A 390 horse restored car should sell for less than 100K.

But a 1980 Cadillac Coupe De Ville owned by Red Skelton with documentation sold for $ 14,000.

Go figure.
70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
67 Top Flight Corvette 4 speed silver small block #s roadster
2002 6 speed silver Pontiac Trans Am SLP Firehawk
2008 Red Z06 Corvette
2002 Blue Lexus SC-430 retractable HT- Wife's car