Electric water pump and several other "fun" issues?

[quagmire]

Hi all, I am currently getting all of the odds and ends taken care of my car for the summer.  I have a few questions about problems I ran into with this build up. 

1.  I want to run an electric water pump like a Meziere or CSR, but want to know if their are any installation issues.  I was mostly concerned with how the belt is routed to the alternator, and how the accessory brackets mount up to it.  If it makes a difference, I am running the March serpentine conversion kit with power steering and no A/C. 

2.  I also bought a 200A Powermaster alternator, but it doesnt seem to fit my bracket right.  Has anyone else had this issue? 

3.  I am using a Moroso 7 qt. oil pan, but I couldnt get it to fit for ****.  I tried several gaskets, I even removed the windage tray and it still wouldnt sit flush. Weird.

4.  I bought a Fluidamper balancer, but it wouldnt press on.  I ended up galling the balancer hub in the process.  I used antiseize like the instructions said, but it didnt work obviously. 

My car has a 360 bored and stroked to 408, running Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, RPM Airgap Intake, 800cfm Thunder AVS carb, MSD Pro billet distributor, Dynomax  headers, Eagle cast stroker crank, KB pistons, Eagle SIR rods, a melling HV pump, Proform roller rockers, and an Edelbrock cam and timing chain.  Thanks for any help in advance! I cant wait to drive this damn car.

[MEK-Dangerfield]

Welcome aboard here. 

 It sounds like you got an awesome setup going there. I really can't help except to say I hope you REALLY beefed up the wiring if you have a 200 amp alternator. 


  Mike

[quagmire]

Thanks! Yeah, not one wire is original on it.  I rewired and redid the entire car and added a bunch of modern day convienences, power windows, locks, keyless entry, electric fans, fuel injection and AC in the near future, the list goes on.  Thus the 200A alternator.  It's a 1974 Challenger BTW.  I havent driven her in 6 years, and I need to get this stuff sorted out before I can take it out.

[wart1de]

Sounds like an impressive car. I'd love to see some pics!

[tactransman]

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Welcome
 I know for sure the Meziere pump on the big blocks requires all new brackets & spacers to mount accessories , not sure on the small block but I would expect similar problems
 I have never used a Power master 200 amp alt , the powermaster 70 amp units fit fine but fail in 2-3 mins on average 
 the oil pan could be a few things the 273-340 & 318 all use a smaller pan , the front seal is smaller , the 360 used a different pan with a wider seal opening so you may have the wrong pan , the other thing to check is the pick up tube could be touching the bottom of the pan , this clearance Has to be checked with any custom pan install as the oil supply could be limited to the pick up is too close to the bottom
 I too have found the Fluidamper products to be too tight on the crank , you will need to polish the crank & possibly have the hub machined out .005 or more to get the needed clearance

[quagmire]

The oil pan is definitely the right one, I actually returned it and exchanged it for another one.  I took off the whole pump and it still didnt sit right.  I think because it is sheetmetal, it may just be poor quality control.  Chryco Psycho, do you think .005 would be enought to still get it to press fine?  The motor is now in the car, so pulling the crank to machine it down would be a chore.  One other thing, I need a new transmission for it, are there any good sources of performance transmissions for us?  I have a 904 trans, and want to keep it with that.  I was looking at Cope Racing Transmissions, but could'nt find much else.  I dont trust any of the local trans shops, and I dont have the equipment to do it myself right now. 

[Chryco Psycho]

miss typed , I meant to put .0005 , .005 would be too much , you really need to put a micrometer on the crank & get the balancer cut to fit exactly , the problem is they need to be tight but not excessively tight
 Cope is supposed tp be excellent with Mopar stuff , I run 4 spds Only so I don`t know who to trust with autos , Tactransman on this site may be a good option for you as well

[tactransman]

quagmire, where you located at?

I highly recommend CRT's manual valve body.

[quagmire]

I am currently in Carbondale, IL for school (SIU), but the car is back up north in storage.  I want to get it done for spring, I'd love to cruise it down here at school.  "Pimped" out beaters and annoying ricers really cramp my style!  Has anyone used their CRT complete trannies?  A local shop rebuilt mine and neglected to tell me it was  lock up style.  They said they installed a shift kit even though i havent found any for the LU 904's. Performance torque converters are nonexistent too.  I started converting it over to non lock up, but trying to find the hard parts I need has been a joke.  Especially seeing as they are 30yrs old!  I think I need a new pump, valve body, front clutch, and input shaft.  I'm not 100% sure though.  I have tons of experience rebuilding transmissions, but I dont have any of the tools necessary to compress the clutch pistons and what not. 

[tactransman]

I wouldn't convert what you have , I would get a different core. Why not go to a 727? CRT complete trannies are very expensive. IMO all you need is a quality rebuild with a few upgrades and a CRT valve body, especially if you go with a 727.

[quagmire]

I would convert, but I already had a custom driveshaft made for a 904 trans. So I'd really like to use what I have.  I finished most of this project before I transfered here and was making good money. Now my college budget prevents me from dumping tons of money into it.  From what I have read, the 904 when built up can take quite a beating too.  I think I am going to run a stock 318 balancer (the engine is internally balanced) until I can figure out what to do with the fluidamper one.

[tactransman]

I would convert, but I already had a custom driveshaft made for a 904 trans. So I'd really like to use what I have. 

I understand that.   If you need any advise on the tranny part I would be glad to help.

[moper]

A couple things..First, you dont cut the crank to fit.You hone the balancer. 2nd, try removing the keyway as an experiment on the balancer deal. I have found many times the keyway gets peened slightly when reused, and this can make balancers act WAY tight. If it installs easy with no keyway, replace the keyway. Mr gasket makes them for a few bucks. 3rd, on the pan...When you trial fit it, dont use teh end rubber seals. If it sits falt, the pan's fine. When you install it, the pan will compress the rubber end seals and fit fine. Like CP said, you should know the exact measurement between the pickup and the pan. If you dont, check it with clay or play dough to make sure it's within 1/4". I cant say much on the Marchsystem and small blocks. I dont think it will owrk without the WP pulley, but I havent really worked on one before..so who knows. Just make sure you can tighten belts, and that it isnt "in the way" of belts. CRT transmisssions is a great resource. Street trannys arent really that much money if they are rebuilt with the same quality stuff. I'm not saying a stocker with a valve body wont work, but John Cope's are far from that. The last one I built was $1200 in parts. (for a 418LA street/strip car) The parts you list are easy to come by..If Tactrans doesnt have them others here do. If you run a 904, make sure it's built to take the abuse. A stock 904 will not live in a car like that for long.

[rumblefish72]

1) I bought a CSR electric wp for my B stroker.  I haven't actually run it yet so I can't tell you how it works.  And you're a smallblock anyway so we're apples to oranges.  None of the stock brackets would fit but I was converting to serpentine and a Delco alternator anyway so I knew I'd be making new brackets.

2) I went with a Powermaster polished bullet serpentine GM Delco style (67295-114).  As mentioned above, I made all my own brackets.  I installed a Classic A/C retrofit kit.  I really wanted to mount the Sanden compressor down low where the mech fuel pump used to go so I had no choice but to make my own brackets.  The last thing I wanted was to pop the hood and have that big compressor jump out at you (even if it is polished).  Besides, all the commercial serpentine kits were big bucks.  I'll rewire the whole thing, bypass the stock amp gauge and install a voltage gauge.

3) I have no clue on your S/B oil pan problems.  I had some trouble with my big block pan but it turned out that the ARP main studs on the #5 cap were about 1/8" too long.  I ground them down so the Indy rear main seal retainer would sit flush and my problem went away.

4) I had this exact same problem when installing my Fluidamper.  I wound up using ARP moly lube on the crank snout and inside of the damper.  I then used my damper installation tool to put some squeeze on it.  I beat it a few times with a nobounce hammer and then turned the installation tool a turn and repeat the process about 40 times.  I hope I never have to take that puppy off again ... I'd probably use mild heat on the damper hub while using the puller to put some pull on it.  I've come to the conclusion that Fluidamper sells them new too tight for a stock crank snout and you have to hone them out after taking a measurement off your crank.  You can always take a few 0.0005" hone out of the ID on the Fluidamper but if the crank has had the snout cut a few 0.001, well, it'd be hard to add metal to tighten things up.  So remember to mike that Fluidamper before buying it at a swap meet!!!