Cripes folks, this is a large audiance we are dealin with here, everybodys got an opinion & is allowed to voice it, being a first time restorer I love those pats on the back, I know if I ever get to carlisle I should park way in the back, most of my stuff that looks so great in the pics (as I try & note every now & then) is 10 ft work at best, get close & you can see I'm a beginner, that said I'm still quite proud of what I've been able to learn in the last 5 years or so & do tend to relate my experiances when other people post similar areas of work, how much value that has, I'm not sure, but it's why I join, to learn, to share & to help others when my limited experiance allows, just step back, enjoy the company & don't ruin on of the best boards on the net with flame wars, think of the guy who puts up all the time & money to allow us to be here, he doesn't need these headaches! Rich.