Rebuilt my front end using polygraphite and had problems...here are solutions

[PlumCrazyChris]

I mentioned in my Newbie thread that I had to use problem solver bushings and got a question about it from Doug, so I thought I'd post the answer here so it might help anyone else. 
Anyone else have the problem with thick strut rod bushings? 


"Hello and good morning, while reading your newbie info thread, you mention that you rebuilt your front end using "problem solver UCA bushings?     could you elaborate on these a little more please.
thanks, Doug"


Sure Doug.  On my suspension, I took Mopar Muscles advice and used 73 B-body spindles to convert to disc brakes, and used a PST polygraphite kit for a 73 disc brake Challenger.
 
When I got my alignment, there wasn't enough adjustment to give me any negative camber.  So I replaced the poly upper control arm bushings with Moog problem solver UCA bushings.

They are rubber and instead of the hole the center of it for the adjuster bolt, the hole is offset to one side that allows for more adjustment.  I'd say that it was offset about 1/4" or more.  It does give much more adjustment, but my alignment still stinks because the caster is way off due to the strut rod bushings being too thick. 

My aligment guy said they would need to be almost 1/2" thinner to get some positive caster.  I was told by someone else that 1/4" needed to be trimmed from their's to get it to spec.  So I'll probably start there.  I'd like to do it on the car, cause its such a job to pull those bushings, so I'll see what I can do with my sawzall. 

Anyone else have the problem with thick strut rod bushings?

[PlumCrazyChris]

Well here is a little more detail on the rebuild.

"thanks for all the info,,,wasnt sure what you were reffering to on the problem solver so i had to ask.. I'm currently redoing a 74 cuda and just yesterday completely tore out the front end,  I'm thinking about going with poly bushings but not doing a kit like you see advertised from pst,, I'll but the bushing probably from springsnthings and just go with balljoints, idler arms from napa since they handle moog parts,, reusing existing spindles, sway bar, tortion bars and strut rods .  oh ya,, im from annapolis md.
Doug"


That sounds like a good plan.  The kit is ok, but not exactly what I wanted.  I priced it all out individually  and its about the same price as buying everything from OReillys or from the Kit. ~$300  But of course the kit's urethane. 

I sure liked the poly LCA bushing too.  Replacing it was a breeze without having to chisel out the old shells from the LCAs (that sucks!~3 hrs).  Just pry the old rubber out with a screwdriver and lube and pop in the new one (2 miuntes).  I don't think its any compromise either, its just as good as the original, maybe better since its unaffected by oil and grease.

Make one of those threaded rod bushing pullers too.  I've pressed them out hydraulically and the $3 puller I made with a piece of pipe, washers, nuts and a big socket was so much easier and quicker its laughable.  I was able to replace Both UCA bushings in ~40 minutes (remove and replace) without even loosening the upper ball joint.  Right, replaced ON the car.  If I had done that in the first place, instead of wrestling with a Hyd. press for 3 hrs at my brothers place, I'd could have had the whole front end removed and replaced in one day.  Not counting for cleanup and detailing.   Check out Mopar Muscle or google it for directions to build.

[PlumCrazyChris]

I made a little sketch of the bushing puller in case you haven't seen it before.

Its easy to build and really makes you smile when it works so great.
Hope it helps someone.

late entry-
I've been off the site (and resto) for a while and saw the photo was deleted and added it back.  Still using it.  BTW, the "pipe" I used was a section from the upper end of a shock absorber about 4" long.   It was the perfect diameter.  It was an old one laying around and was pretty thick.  I lent it to a friend, that ended up crushing it.  I cut a piece off a newer shock, and it was much thinner and was too week to work right, kept crushing. 

[Bullitt-]

At our last Mopar Club meeting Front End Alignment was the topic and one member, who's car had been damaged in an accident, could not get enough pos.caster & said that he machined his strut rod shoulder down a little making it shorter which pulls the LCA forward.

[duodec]

PlumCrazyChris
     just curious; you mentioned using '73 B-body spindles.  The Mopar Action tech article http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html specifically warns against those because they are taller and can affect suspension geometry.  I remember the back and forth of articles in the '80s between Mopar Muscle and Mopar Action too, though I don't know if there was ever a declared "winner".  MA is still sticking with the "not recommended" though. 

Is it possible thats causing your alignment difficulties?

[HP2]

It is highly unlikely that the taller spindles caused the alignment issues.

In all the years I've seen this topic debated, the alignment issues seem to come down to a few issues; 1) the car was marginally aligned to begin with. After all, how many have their alignment checked BEFORE they tear into a project.  2) Parts are not in great shape or are at an end of the specs and allow for tolerance stack up. 3) Builders are asking for specs outside of what was the norm for when these cars were built. 4)A lot of shops these days have no clue how to align classic cars 5) The change in strut rod bushings impact the caster adjustments like explained above without the builder know it has been changed.

[PlumCrazyChris]

Duodec, Mopar Muscle had a race front end shop do a comparison on the two spindles and there were some slight differences, but nothing that you would notice on the street.  The only problem at all that they could find was when the suspension was at full extension (like when your catching air over RR tracks).  They even went so far as to say that they may even be better in some aspects, more neg camber and 3 lbs lighter.  The articles call "Ending the Debate " or something like that.  I can dig it out if your interested...

It is possible that the spindle may be causing problems, but I'll get the caster situation figured out, its waaayy off, and get back to you. 

I think I'm having the same issue as Bullitt described.  I'm going to cut the strut rod bushings down as recommended and see if that helps.  I'm also going to take it to a different alignment shop.  This guy was recommended because he was old school and new these old cars.  I'd say he's decrepid school and so is his equipment.  I'm going back to firestone for a laser guided lifetime alignment like I should have done in the first place.   

[duodec]

Plum,
     thanks.  I was out of the loop for quite a while (no magazines, no newsgroups/lists) due to lack of time.  Its interesting that the two magazines are still at odds.  If you have a date/issue reference for the MM update I'd appreciate it.  If its online I'll find it.

Rich

[PlumCrazyChris]

I can probably dig that up for you.  I've had it close at hand for reference when doing the swap.