VIN tag restoration

Author Topic: VIN tag restoration  (Read 32700 times)

Alaskan_TA

  • Guest
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2007 - 08:15:09 PM »
This seems to have struck some nerves for sure. It usually does.

As far as separation goes, you would have to ask a judge for HIS definition. To me it means removal of the VIN tag from what it is riveted too.

Before anyone changes a dash pad, removes their VIN, mails it across state lines, or whatever else, please check YOUR states laws. If you mail it out for restoration, be sure to check the receiving states laws as well.

Educate yourself and do what you want after that, then if you cross into a gray area and your tag or car gets seized or you get some jail time you have no one to blame but yourself.

I deal with VIN fraud every day in one way or another. This "hobby" has a lot of bad people involved in it that prey on innocent people, more than you know. Educate yourselves as you see fit to protect yourself from them. Personally I choose to fight them instead of hiding my head in the sand and ignoring the problem.

As far as broadcast sheets and fender tags tags go since they were mentioned, they have no legal standing or recognition with the law enforcement community. The only numbers on the car they care about are the dash VINs and the "secret" body numbers. The body numbers on our cars have not remained much of a secret as we all know.

So, one more time, PLEASE educate yourselves with your state and local laws so YOU know what YOU are getting into BEFORE you do anything with your dash VIN.

Very sincerely,
Barry Washington







Offline Super Blue 72

  • Permanent Resident
  • *******
  • Posts: 12711
  • "Big 'n Little" Member since 8/9/05
    • Phil's Super Blue '72
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2007 - 05:39:16 AM »
So, one more time, PLEASE educate yourselves with your state and local laws so YOU know what YOU are getting into BEFORE you do anything with your dash VIN.





 :iagree:  Do what ever you think is right, but if the law comes knocking on your door, you better be up to snuff 'cause you'll be the one paying the consequences. Just my  :2cents:
1972 Dodge Challenger Rallye 340, AT, Code TB3=Super Blue, SBD=8/17/1971.  Yes, a Rallye without the fender louvers from the factory because of the body side molding option.

Pic #2 and 3 of my ARII 1/24 scale model car 

Phil in New England-Massachusetts  Always thank God for what you have!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/456046/1972-dodge-challenger

Offline torredcuda

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 6218
  • Epping NH joined 11/23/03
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2007 - 06:52:33 AM »

As far as separation goes, you would have to ask a judge for HIS definition. To me it means removal of the VIN tag from what it is riveted too.

Before anyone changes a dash pad, removes their VIN, mails it across state lines, or whatever else, please check YOUR states laws. If you mail it out for restoration, be sure to check the receiving states laws as well.

Educate yourself and do what you want after that, then if you cross into a gray area and your tag or car gets seized or you get some jail time you have no one to blame but yourself.

I deal with VIN fraud every day in one way or another. This "hobby" has a lot of bad people involved in it that prey on innocent people, more than you know. Educate yourselves as you see fit to protect yourself from them. Personally I choose to fight them instead of hiding my head in the sand and ignoring the problem.


So, one more time, PLEASE educate yourselves with your state and local laws so YOU know what YOU are getting into BEFORE you do anything with your dash VIN.

Very sincerely,
Barry Washington





 :iagree:

That is the point I was trying to make,it is not so cut and dry and posting a section of the law is  not giving people the full info.
I give you credit for looking out for the hobby and all you do for it but I think you go about the vin issue the wrong way.    :2cents:
Jeff
72 Barracuda 340/4spd  Torred
70 roadrunner 383/auto  In-Violet
70 Duster 360/auto drag car  (Petty Blue soon)
04 Ram 2500 5.7 Hemi

Offline bb71challenger

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 6549
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2007 - 07:14:49 PM »
WOw, what a firestorm this thread was. Too bad for me but I already removed my vin plate and will soon attach it to a new YearOne dash pad. I feel I am doing nothing wrong because the last time I checked no one is restoring pads at the customers location with the vin plate still attached. My plate had scratches on it from the previous owner and I wanted to get it redone but now I guess I will just touch it up with flat black paint for fear of fellony vin tampering charges  :scared:
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline JS23U0B

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2007 - 08:56:02 PM »
Its a good thing my dash pad looks so good   :2thumbs:

What the hell i am suppose to do with this thing?

I want a fiberglass dash!!!   

But i do understand why it is a law, i will not remove my VIN after reading this post.

I am now going to try to fix this nasty a$$ looking pad

Offline bb71challenger

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 6549
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2007 - 09:56:29 PM »
Its a good thing my dash pad looks so good   :2thumbs:

What the hell i am suppose to do with this thing?

I want a fiberglass dash!!!   

But i do understand why it is a law, i will not remove my VIN after reading this post.

I am now going to try to fix this nasty a$$ looking pad

I have to say this for sure, if a guy keeps possession of his dash pad, drills out the rivets and rivets the vin plate to a refurbished or new dash pad wtf is the problem? htf are we supposed to restore our cars if we cannot even do that? I will never have a problem with a loose data plate as long as it goes back on the car it originated from. Surely the same laws that prosecute vin tampering and vin swapping can be worded to protect the restoration business or car owner who is doing nothing other than fixing up his car
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline FM3V6M

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 738
  • TX9 383 4spd
    • mytx9cuda
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2007 - 10:52:19 PM »
I wonder how the guys at 'Just Dashes' handle this?

Offline bb71challenger

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 6549
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2007 - 12:06:29 AM »
I wonder how the guys at 'Just Dashes' handle this?
I heard that they have to destroy the vin tags if the customer makes the mistake of leaving them on the dash when they ship to just dashes
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline hemi71

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2007 - 12:10:37 AM »
Here is a copy of the law:

(a) A person who—
(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part; or
(2) with intent to further the theft of a motor vehicle, knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act,
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(b)
(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are—
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by—
(i) the owner or his authorized agent;
(ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.

I've added the bold to make it stand out. Pretty clear it's not illegal to remove the VIN plate and restore it if you are the owner, or the restorer and it's reasonably neccessary.


Offline bb71challenger

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 6549
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2007 - 12:19:53 AM »
So lets just say you got a pile of vin plates donated to you, could you lawfully return those tags to their rightful owners under law? I am not saying to charge or anything, just to return them at the customers expense for packaging and shipping? I just cannot get the mental image of the vin plates getting cut up merely because they were loose and floating around  :walkaway:
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline hemi71

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2007 - 12:36:37 AM »
This is all about INTENT...if you are trying to defraud someone or conceal the identity of a car thats stolen, you are guilty of a crime.

Read the law..pretty clear it's aimed at stolen cars, not restoration projects.

Odds are if you had a stack of VIN plates, those cars are long gone to the crusher.  Nothing in the law makes it illegal to posess them if you dont know the cars they belong to are stolen and you did not remove them from the cars.

Offline bb71challenger

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 6549
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2007 - 12:42:09 AM »
This is all about INTENT...if you are trying to defraud someone or conceal the identity of a car thats stolen, you are guilty of a crime.

Read the law..pretty clear it's aimed at stolen cars, not restoration projects.

Odds are if you had a stack of VIN plates, those cars are long gone to the crusher.  Nothing in the law makes it illegal to posess them if you dont know the cars they belong to are stolen and you did not remove them from the cars.
I am just posing the argument that if the rightfull owners had possession of their car and you ended up with the tag somehow legally, lets say you found a box somewhere with them in it, it would be legal to join the rightfull owner and his vin tag without being in jeopardy of being sent to jail on some weird technicality or interpretation of the law right?
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline hemi71

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2007 - 01:04:38 AM »
laws differ state by state...you'd need a lawyer familiar with your state's laws to answer that question. By federal law, you would be OK, but some states might be more restrictive.

Offline Tropicalcats

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 3488
  • Don't Ever, Ever Give Up
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2007 - 06:42:07 AM »
I wonder how the guys at 'Just Dashes' handle this?

 I have talked with them about sending in my dash and that made it very clear TAKE YOUR VIN TAG OFF BEFORE YOU SEND IN YOUR DASH.
1970 Challenger R/T 383  Matching#s JS23N0E under construction. It's Plum Crazy
SOLD

Offline JJ

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
    • Challenger-Registry
Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2007 - 12:50:53 AM »
Great thread ! Interesting and spicy !