VIN tag restoration

Author Topic: VIN tag restoration  (Read 32560 times)

Alaskan_TA

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2007 - 06:53:56 PM »
If I may quote myself;

"So, one more time, PLEASE educate yourselves with your state and local laws so YOU know what YOU are getting into BEFORE you do anything with your dash VIN. "

It sounds like you did that, good for you.  :thumbsup:

Barry




Offline Street_Challenged73

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2007 - 07:57:34 PM »
Wow, this thread turned into a heap of valuable information, even if there were some tangents used along the way.  I've had this talk several times to both my MoPar neighbor as well as my neighbor who owns the body shop I bring my car to.  It's definitely a touchy subject, but I always end up saying how the law would rather you keep the rusty car intact, then piece-by-piece transfer the donated metal to the once rusty body.  My body man neighbor just doesn't understand why someone would want a pieced together car when you could use the better condition (but less-desirable) car and use the remaining parts from say an R/T 440 car.  His philosophy is correct in nature, but is no where close to being "legal" in terms of proper procedure.
1973 Dodge Challenger......................The ongoing project. (00/----\00)
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All-American Muscle: 'Cudas and Challengers...Still the Elite and always will be.

                                                                                             
                 
Street_Challenged73 from Wisconsin

Offline Top Banana

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2007 - 10:30:53 PM »
http://www.coupeking.com/product_main.php?product_id=330

Once again I ask :  Why are BMWs different from Mopars ? This is just one on many suppliers for new VIN tags for 70s BMWs.   :bananasmi
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007 - 10:32:54 PM by Top Banana »
70 Challenger R/T 440 Convertible
64 Impala SS Convertible
72 BMW 3.0 CSL
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Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #78 on: December 06, 2007 - 08:42:50 AM »
Once again I ask :  Why are BMWs different from Mopars ? This is just one on many suppliers for new VIN tags for 70s BMWs.  

Right off the top of my head, are there are 70 BMWs that have the value of a Hemi 'Cuda? I honestly don't know, so enlighten me if you do.  My guess, however, is that there are not.  The laws probably apply equally to all cars (and all owners), but rebodying a BMW probably doesn't stand to jack up its value to nearly the same extent as rebodying a 6-banger Barracuda to a rarer, high-optioned model, so law-enforcement pays more attention to the 'Cudas than to the BMWs.


"She'll make point five past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, and I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

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Offline Top Banana

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2007 - 07:32:01 PM »
Right off the top of my head, are there are 70 BMWs that have the value of a Hemi 'Cuda? I honestly don't know, so enlighten me if you do.  My guess, however, is that there are not.  The laws probably apply equally to all cars (and all owners), but rebodying a BMW probably doesn't stand to jack up its value to nearly the same extent as rebodying a 6-banger Barracuda to a rarer, high-optioned model, so law-enforcement pays more attention to the 'Cudas than to the BMWs.

To answer your question: Yes! There are some high $ BMWs out there.

The intent of these VIN plates is to restore the vehicle to as it came from the factory.  Not rebody a car!  The same as the majority of us want to do to our Mopars.  I own both, and have a hard time understanding the problem of doing an honest restoration of any part on my car whether it be my BMW 3.0 CSL or my Dodge Challenger R/T 440 convertible :bananasmi 
70 Challenger R/T 440 Convertible
64 Impala SS Convertible
72 BMW 3.0 CSL
77 Porsche 911S

Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2007 - 10:08:38 AM »
To answer your question: Yes! There are some high $ BMWs out there.

OK, that begs two questions.

1) Are there Bimmers that can be convincingly "converted" into a high-ticket model?
2) Will the price differential between the two BMW models above be equivalent to the percentage differential between a base, slant 6 Barracuda and a Hemi Cuda?

The intent of these VIN plates is to restore the vehicle to as it came from the factory.  Not rebody a car!  The same as the majority of us want to do to our Mopars.  I own both, and have a hard time understanding the problem of doing an honest restoration of any part on my car whether it be my BMW 3.0 CSL or my Dodge Challenger R/T 440 convertible :bananasmi 

Granted that is the intent.  Or at least that is probably the intent; not knowing the makers of the plates I can't swear to their intent.  What is true, however, is that they can be used for other intents, like rebodying.

Getting back to my original point, what I suspect is true is that one of these unscrupulous rebodyers could buy a $20k Bimmer, and with about $40k of parts and labor, rebody it into a $60k Bimmer, while another one might buy a $20k Barracuda, and, with maybe $40k worth of parts and labor rebody it into a $200k Cuda.  Consequently, law enforcement pays attention to someone selling Cuda VINs more than someone selling Bimmer VINs.

But I could be wrong  :dunno:


"She'll make point five past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, and I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

- Han Solo, Star Wars

Advice Thread - Taking Pictures Of Cars

Offline Top Banana

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2007 - 12:00:42 AM »
OK, that begs two questions.

1) Are there Bimmers that can be convincingly "converted" into a high-ticket model?
2) Will the price differential between the two BMW models above be equivalent to the percentage differential between a base, slant 6 Barracuda and a Hemi Cuda?

Granted that is the intent.  Or at least that is probably the intent; not knowing the makers of the plates I can't swear to their intent.  What is true, however, is that they can be used for other intents, like rebodying.

Getting back to my original point, what I suspect is true is that one of these unscrupulous rebodyers could buy a $20k Bimmer, and with about $40k of parts and labor, rebody it into a $60k Bimmer, while another one might buy a $20k Barracuda, and, with maybe $40k worth of parts and labor rebody it into a $200k Cuda.  Consequently, law enforcement pays attention to someone selling Cuda VINs more than someone selling Bimmer VINs.

But I could be wrong  :dunno:

So why punish all us honest guys out there wanting to do an honest restoration on our cars by denying restored/reproduction parts just because some few will use them for illegal purposes?  Should we quit selling booze because some will use it to get drunk and do illegal acts, or guns because some will commit crimes?  This is America!  Let freedom ring for honest law abiding folks.  Punish the criminals and not the good guys!!

My VIN tag for my Challenger is laying here beside my computer in an envelope just like I received it from the previous owner when I bought the car.  Does the Mopar police think I'm guilty of a crime?   When the car is fully restored, the VIN tag and fender tag are going back on a restored dash.  What's so bad about that?  I'm putting the car back to exactly like it came from the factory!!  :bananasmi   
70 Challenger R/T 440 Convertible
64 Impala SS Convertible
72 BMW 3.0 CSL
77 Porsche 911S

Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2007 - 02:54:52 PM »
So why punish all us honest guys out there wanting to do an honest restoration on our cars by denying restored/reproduction parts just because some few will use them for illegal purposes? 

Well, first off, the number is debatable.  I mean, frankly, I couldn't care less what my VIN tag looks like.  I suppose I'm concerned that it's legible, and that's about it.  So my guess (again) is that there are two types of people who are interested in repro VIN tags: show car restorers, and rebodyers.  Wht percentage of the totle is accounted for by each I can't say.

The answer to the rest is that lawmakers are not auto experts.  If they were, this situation would have been handled better.  I'm not defending the laws as they are; only explaining them. I have the car I want, the car I drive to high school, and I'll never sell it, so the value is irrelevant to me.  There are lots of people out there, however, to whom the value is very important, and a few to whom the value is everything.  And a lot of them are people in the hobby who want to make sure that the value of their cars stays as high as possible, and who consequently oppose reproduction VIN tags.


"She'll make point five past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, and I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

- Han Solo, Star Wars

Advice Thread - Taking Pictures Of Cars

Offline ~Shaker~

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #83 on: January 06, 2008 - 11:15:13 AM »
Here's Oklahoma law on the subject.  Notice paragraph (f) states that it is not illegal for restorative purposes if you notify the Oklahoma Tax Commission of your intent to do so...


§47-4-107.
   
   (a) Any person or persons who shall destroy, remove, cover, alter or
   deface, or cause to be destroyed, removed, covered, altered or
   defaced, the engine number or other distinguishing number of any
   vehicle in this state, without first giving notice of such act to the
   Oklahoma Tax Commission, upon such form as the Commission may
   prescribe, or any person who shall give a wrong description in any
   application for the registration of any vehicle in this state for the
   purpose of concealing or hiding the identity of such vehicle, shall be
   deemed guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be
   punished by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary for a term of not
   less than one (1) year nor more than five (5) years.
   
   (b) A person who buys, receives, possesses, sells or disposes of a
   vehicle or an engine for a vehicle, knowing that the identification
   number of the vehicle or engine has been removed or falsified, shall,
   upon conviction, be guilty of a misdemeanor.
   
   (c) A person who buys, receives, possesses, sells or disposes of a
   vehicle or an engine for a vehicle, with knowledge that the
   identification number of the vehicle or engine has been removed or
   falsified and with intent to conceal or misrepresent the identity of
   the vehicle or engine, shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony.
   
   (d) A person who removes a license plate from a vehicle or affixes to
   a vehicle a license plate not authorized by law for use on said
   vehicle with intent to conceal or misrepresent the identity of the
   vehicle or its owner shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a
   misdemeanor.
   
   (e) As used in this section:
   
   1. "Identification number" includes an identifying number, serial
   number, engine number or other distinguishing number or mark, placed
   on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer or by authority of the
   Oklahoma Tax Commission or in accordance with the laws of another
   state or country;
   
   2. "Remove" includes deface, cover and destroy;
   
   3. "Falsify" includes alter and forge.
   
   (f) An identification number may be placed on a vehicle or engine by
   its manufacturer in the regular course of business or placed or
   restored on a vehicle or engine by authority of the Oklahoma Tax
   Commission without violating this section; an identification number so
   placed or restored is not falsified.

Jacquie

Offline CHUCKS71

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #84 on: January 14, 2008 - 08:37:57 PM »
 :popcorn:
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Tower Rat 95B

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Re: VIN tag restoration
« Reply #85 on: July 02, 2008 - 11:11:44 PM »
 So what is the Hemi Cuda story?