Whos personally installed a 5.7/6.1 hemi in an e-body?

[SilverChally]

Im pretty much set on doing a 5.7 probally for my 70 challenger.  Wondering if anyone else here has done it and can offer tips/advice.  Ive read some info like the truck motors are easier to use, cant remember why.  Info like how you did motor mounts, how it all fits, etc... thanks

[go-fish]

Conv340 has done the 6.1. His thread is "channeling a 'cuda" in the Project Updates. He has an Alter-k-tion though. I don't know which one it is but one has the engine accessories in a bad location, i.e. Alt., A/C, ...
Good luck.

[gkring]

Car 5.7 and the 6.1 all mount A/C, alt, etc down low which I guess gives issues with steering box, frame rails, etc whereas the truck 5.7 mount them up high. I think the car motors look better and definitely have better looking intakes. I also have a truck motor waiting to go in a challenger convertible. With the 6.1's coming down in price I may change my mind. The truck motors are way cheaper. I picked up a motor and trans for $3500 delivered with all accessories and computer. Now I want a 5 or 6 speed stick instead of the auto.

Greg

[440WhiteBoy]

I agree with the looks of the car motor intake looking better compared to the truck manifold which is more flat. Dont know if youll have any hood clearance problems with the raised intake? Is much easier to install a generic air cleaner to the truck motor. Dont know if the car is any better in performance? The HP is about the same. Other issue's are the Anti-theft option, you dont want this unless you get everything from the vehicle - or purchase another computer and or system.

Ive done this install to my 1970 barracuda - Brand New 2004 5.7 4 x4 auto motor pullout. I used the stock computer, deleting most of the unwanted wires like to the auto trans I did not use and making up my own Relay's and fuse box. My thinking was why waste a good computer designed for this motor and to save the extra 1k+ a couple of draw back's are the RPM limiter is factory fixed @ 5400 and youll get lots of codes errors -- but if your not using the dash - then why care?
I went with the more expensive Keisler 5sp overdrive stick shift trans. Since I went with keisler trans I had to buy the hemi bellhousing +$$$-! ouch - man did that hurt me in my pocket book!
 You will need to change out the oil pan- I used charlies with the new oil pick up tube.
 You will need to change the motor mounts. I used TTI's since I went with their ceramic headers is what they recommended - they came with the bungs welded in for your O2 sensors to screw into. Street Performance sells a set also which is designed defferent but are the same in dimention's. An oil filter bypass set could be used or an offset oil filter adapter and a very small oil fitler(mini). What's real fun - is finding your much needed Radiator hoses to fit the new needed angle's/turns for the top & bottom. I went with Northern for my radiator - Aluminum large core small block size. I kept the factory clutch fan so no electric fans were needed. Since this motor needs Hi-Pressure gas feed for the EFI I went with an gas tank that had a lower sump welded in to always have gas. Also a Hi flow electric fuel pump with a regulator to set the pressure @ 57#'s.
 I went with a stock manaul steering gear box -- I first had the stock power steering gear box which I would of had to hammer in the TTI Headers - I did not want to do that. I had to ding in my headers for clearance of my Hi-Torque mini starter needed on the driver side to fit into the new bellhousing.  Many times the motor went in, and then out for all of the trial fits and mock ups needed. I also had to cut a corner out of my 'K' frame to clear the oil pan about one inch square. The motor actually was rubbing the firewall upper cowl to maybe an eight inch max clearance - also had to hammer in the lower firewall - floor pan lip/flange for the bellhousing to clear. Had to put that on after the motor was installed, and the headers went on after also. Ive been told one could lift motor/trans and all from underneath if you could raise the car high enough.
 
Some Pics.....

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/440whiteboy/DSCN0126.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/440whiteboy/DSC03457.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/440whiteboy/DSC03462.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/440whiteboy/Picture027.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/440whiteboy/Picture026.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/440whiteboy/DSC03521.jpg


http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/440whiteboy/DSC03519.jpg


http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/440whiteboy/DSC03609.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r71/440whiteboy/DSC00658.jpg

[rottenfish]

That is a great install. What can you use for a clutch/flywheel on these things? Will they take the standard 6 bolt 10.5" flywheel/clutch?

[440WhiteBoy]

sorry dont remember what the hole size was, I just used the Kit from Keisler as my package deal. I do know that the flywheel was extra thick and heavy, about twice as thick as the stock automatic flywheel that I removed. you might be able to use the small block? maybe call Mopar Performance Hot Line? 

[71bigblock]

440WB you are the man.  I plan on doing this to my '67 pickup, and have a lot of questions.  Do you mind if I pm you or email you with them?  I dont like to hijack threads...   

[440WhiteBoy]

ok - send your PM or email me -
will try to answere the

[SilverChally]

Good info, thanks!  I did some searching around and found some pages with good info also.  Doesnt seem too bad, just gotta wait for a deal on one!

[conv340]

I'm putting a 6.1L into my '70 Cuda. I went with the alterkation kit for several reasons but it makes the late Hemi install a lot easer. you get rid of the rear steer and the big gear box. I wanted to go with the 5 speed auto stick A580 trans. I'm not sure it's a great idea for the faint of heart. It is a big trans and requires a lot of cutting of you tunnel. I got every thing in and fitting but it was a lot of work. I ordered the TTI headers also, they have a version for the Alterkation and a 6.1 that Bill made up just for this app! I'll let you know if they fit. The low mount alt and a/c are nice they look very clean in the car. On a e-body the frame is wide enough to clear. I don't know about a factory k-member. The oil pan is a issue on a 6.1 the pan bolts to the trans for strength I wanted to keep that feature so no sheet metal pans. I ordered the pan from the SRT jeep because it is a rear sump. it fits nice but it hangs lower then I would like. I may rethink that idea. I don't yet have all the computer problems worked out ( haven't got that far) but S&P has done some now and they use the factory computer and reprogram it. I agree that it would be better to use the factory computer they spend millions to make sure it runs right.
On the hook clearance the 6.1 is taller then the 5.7 (car) and if you haven't channeled it then it should fit under the stock hood. Mine kind bumps.  I have the AAR hood from YO and with the inner structure it bumps the throttle body. The intake is actually up in to the scoop! I'm hoping that a hood that doesn't have the bracing and the rain gutter will clear or I may need to modify it a bit.   
I was thinking about starting a thread just to follow the install. Since I think a lot of people are starting to do this. It would be nice to have a spot where you can get feed back and input on this swap!

[conv340]

Here's a couple more pics ( I have lots) let me know if there is something you want to see. I also just found out that Milodon is making a oil pan soon for this app. I bought mine from Cleavland pick-a-part as  complete package with only 9K on it. Not cheep though.  I was going to do a 5.7 but got stupid and broke the bank! 
Check out Channeling a 'Cuda http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=28388.30

[MoparCar]

conv340,
Looking great!  :thumbsup:Keep us posted as usual!
Wes

[SilverChally]

Itd be great if you started a thread on the install... guess you could add it to your resto post.  I remember seeing pics a while ago, then found your post last night.  I didnt realize there were differences in height, figured the 6.1 was just stroked.  I have alot of decisions to make on mine, but a updated suspsension/k-frame seems to be a good idea.  Im affraid to even ask what you paid!

[conv340]

I didn't realize there were differences in height

The only difference in hight is the intake the block and heads are the same size. I wasn't sure if you misunderstood. There have been several 6.1 installs and I think they clear the factory hood. But my problem is the body has been lowered 2" over the frame.  So the hood is closer to the motor. One of the reasons I wanted a modern motor, fuel injection etc is the same reason I went with a new cross member. I wanted the looks of the classics with the feel and comfort of a new car. The "pro-touring" thing. I know it's an over used term but it fits as well as anything. Here's a couple of pics that show the low mount accesorys and mount clearance.

[SilverChally]

I wasnt really sure, but was guessing that was the case.  I want to have the advantages of modern technology with the old styling, I love the new challenger, but something I dont like, one being price!  I'll been following your post, I got at least 2 cars to finish before I can start on mine, so I'm sure your will be done by then!