Author Topic: AAR / T/A Handling  (Read 92507 times)

Offline HP2

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #60 on: May 04, 2007 - 11:58:37 AM »
Ya know jvike, it's kind of ironic that you probably put your car on a circuit course more than a lot of guys stateside who claim to have "g-machines," yet you have one of the mildest mopar suspension combos available.

I hope you have plans to make a big step up in sway bars and brakes so your track time can be more enjoyable.
Even using the 11.75 disc rotors will net you a big improvement in braking force. You might also consider adding  ducting to bring cool air to the backside of the rotor during your track visits. This also will help keeps things working much better.




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2007 - 12:13:23 PM »
Cool Vid Jvike
 Good to see a cuda being raced !!

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Offline 422STROKER

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2007 - 05:41:53 PM »
Nice Video Jvike! :burnout:

Tom :jumping:
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Offline jvike

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2007 - 09:19:06 AM »
My plan is to make my car a Pro-Touring/g-machine, but it cost alot of money. The thing that is holding me back the most are probably tires. Everything cost money so I have to convert it over some time. I do not care that much for laptimes.. I hadn't calculated average speed until I was asked. I'm just in it for the fun. A fun fact is that I drove same laptime as my brother who have a 69 Mustang fastback with a 400hp 351W, TCP r&p, TCP Coil-Overs, and 17" wheels!  :roflsmiley: He claims his brakes where useless, so he's bought 13" Wilwoods this year. Will be fun to se his improvement on the laptime with big brakes.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007 - 10:08:59 AM by jvike »
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Offline HP2

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #64 on: May 05, 2007 - 10:16:04 AM »

Yes, these can be bottomless pits of money when you start getting into the modifications. How far you want to go down the pro touring route will determine how much money it takes. I still hold that for a few thousand $$ US, you can have a great handling, stock suspended mopar. Add a few thousand more for wheels and tires and you have a great car. By comparison, you will spend $10k or more to convert to a coil over suspension on both ends, and still need wheels and tires.

Perhaps you might consider getting some wheels and tires specifically for your track days. Soft compound street tires or racing slicks would enhance your grip considerably. This guy has a large selection of sticky 15" tires. The Avon tires are even sourced from England, so a less expensive source may be close by you. http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/
These guys can hook you up with some less expensive, lightweight racing wheels. Check out their clearence area first to see what they have available for some screaming deals, like $30-50 a wheel. Even some of their regular racing wheels are only around $100 each. http://www.aeroracewheel.com/

The stock 11.75 disc rotors are also a great and inexpensive way to increase braking forces. In my circuit track days we used these with great results. We would run up to 50 laps on a very small oval track, so braking systems were abused pretty hard. Think of Martinsville on the Nascar series. The cars weighed 3500 pounds minimum and used large drums in the rear. With the big rotors, semi-metallice pads, and proper venting, we could outbrake the chevys and fords easily and still had brakes left by the end of a race when the competition was getting dep into brake fade. It was not uncommon to see rotors starting to glow orange on these cars by the end of a long green flag run.

Offline HP2

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2007 - 04:54:19 AM »
if you ever get the chance measure the clearance at the middle of the K-frame and let me know where your at.

Sorry it has taken me so long to post this up. With summer coming here in the northern hemisphere, I've been real busy outside with my house.

The measurement at the middle of my K frame is 5.5 inches. With 235/60x15 tires my lower ball joint and inner control arm pivot locations are both at 10.5 inches. With this set up and the resulting upper control arm angles, I am at a 5.687 inch front roll center location, which is good for a stock suspended car. 4 icnehs would be better though.

I've thought about switching my spindles over to the lighter, taller FJM style which will raise the roll center to 6.5 inches. While this does raise the roll center location, it also reduces the moment lever arm, which is a primary measurement that contributes to body roll. Reducing the length of this measurement helps reduce body roll which allows you to control the same rolling motion with lighter spring and sway bar rates. Since I'm putting in the biggest torsion bars available in, I'm holding off on the spindle switch until after I drive with the new torsion bars for a while.

Ideally a spindle the height of the FJM unit with a 2" drop in them would be the best set up for a stock style mopar suspension. This would allow your car to sit low to the ground without giving up the wheel travel of turning down your torsion bars while achieving a 4 to 4.25 inch roll center in the front and losing a few pounds of unsprung weight in the process. I've looked at the Fatman Fabrication spindles, which are exactly as described above, but they aren't the sturdiest looking thing, IMO. I'm sure they are decent for street rods that are fairly lightweight and they probably have logged tens if not hundreds of thousands of miles on them without incident. I'm just not impressed with them as they are a simple flat plate with the upper ball joint mount jutting out the side.

John, if your reading along, here is another business opportunity for XV; forged steel, lightweight, tall, 2" drop spindles for $300 a pair or the same thing in billet aluminum for $600 a pair. They'd sell like $1 beer at a chili cook off.  :2thumbs:

 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007 - 05:09:59 AM by HP2 »

Offline FY1Cuda

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2007 - 10:46:04 PM »
A little late to the party here, but I went with the 1.02" (I think) torsion bars, polyurethane bushings all around, stock leafs, and front and rear sway bars.  Even though it is a big block car, it handles extremely well, with the only problem being that I slide around on the seats.  :burnout:

I don't even want to imagine how it would handle if I started getting crazy pouring money into the suspension, but I was just looking for a setup that looks stock, but drives more like a new car.

Offline 70challengerrt

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2007 - 04:47:07 PM »
Ok  so reading this thread my intested is peaked. Mine is not an aar or ta but a 440 r/t car. I have the firmfeel steering box, front sway bar, energy suspension moog joints and 245/45 r17 tires but that is it. What is the best upgrades for my suspension. Torsion bars? What size? Sway bars? What size? Box out lower control arms? I would love to go to elkhart lake road course, not to race but just run some laps and not have the car all over. I have the od 4 speed and 3.55 gears so I should be ok there. What kinda power should a guy have (my 440 is a little weak as its out of a 75 newport). Just so I don't look like a fool my driving will do that itself.
Todd

Offline FY1Cuda

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #68 on: August 24, 2007 - 12:16:58 AM »
Ok  so reading this thread my intested is peaked. Mine is not an aar or ta but a 440 r/t car. I have the firmfeel steering box, front sway bar, energy suspension moog joints and 245/45 r17 tires but that is it. What is the best upgrades for my suspension. Torsion bars? What size? Sway bars? What size? Box out lower control arms? I would love to go to elkhart lake road course, not to race but just run some laps and not have the car all over. I have the od 4 speed and 3.55 gears so I should be ok there. What kinda power should a guy have (my 440 is a little weak as its out of a 75 newport). Just so I don't look like a fool my driving will do that itself.
Todd
I'd say torsion bars, polyurethane bushings, and a rear swaybay are a good way to start.....

Offline RusTy/SE

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #69 on: August 24, 2007 - 09:00:17 AM »
A little late to the party here, but I went with the 1.02" (I think) torsion bars, polyurethane bushings all around, stock leafs, and front and rear sway bars.  Even though it is a big block car, it handles extremely well, with the only problem being that I slide around on the seats.  :burnout:

I don't even want to imagine how it would handle if I started getting crazy pouring money into the suspension, but I was just looking for a setup that looks stock, but drives more like a new car.

FY1, which sway bars are you using? Any issues installing the replacement torsion bars or rear sway bar and did the folks you got them from have the right bushings or did you source them from a different supplier?? Man, i'm really not trying to pound you with so many qs but i figure that since my car is about to go on the rotisserie, now would be the easiest point in time to make these possible changes :)

Russ :working:
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Offline FY1Cuda

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2007 - 03:21:06 AM »
FY1, which sway bars are you using? Any issues installing the replacement torsion bars or rear sway bar and did the folks you got them from have the right bushings or did you source them from a different supplier?? Man, i'm really not trying to pound you with so many qs but i figure that since my car is about to go on the rotisserie, now would be the easiest point in time to make these possible changes :)

Russ :working:
I believe I have a 1" sway bar in the rear, and just the stock swaybar up front, but I replaced the bushings.  Getting the torsion bars out is a huge pain in the butt (still not really sure what caused them to come out), but maybe someone has a secret that I don't know about  :roflsmiley:)  Putting them back in is painless.  The sway bar kit should come with bushings, and the swaybar itself is a simple install.

Offline RusTy/SE

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #71 on: August 26, 2007 - 11:11:22 AM »
Cool, thanks man :thumbsup:

Russ
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Offline jvike

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #72 on: August 26, 2007 - 02:44:44 PM »
Here's todays events. I've put on an RPM Air-Gap so the car got up to speed quiker than before, but I had problems with an oil leak so there was very much smoke behind me...


« Last Edit: August 26, 2007 - 03:00:01 PM by jvike »
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Offline IMNCARN82

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #73 on: August 26, 2007 - 02:46:49 PM »
I spent alot of time at road america.  Elkart lake.  I love that course!  I lived real close by. :wave:
'73 340 5 speed,RMS,BAER,... "Supercuda" (O[   ]||||[   ]O)  
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Offline Mr. 440SixPack

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Re: AAR / T/A Handling
« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2007 - 05:15:06 AM »
Here are some videos about 'Cuda and corners :roflsmiley:





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