Author Topic: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?  (Read 3899 times)

Offline Carlwalski

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Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« on: April 25, 2007 - 09:04:50 PM »


Now I know 100% what engine I am having I won'tt be going full out with aftermarket mods. The body will still get the XV stiffening kit and torqueboxes but no mini tub or roll bar or custom strengtheners etc.

My question, with 550hp (max) would my stock leaf springs be fine? I've seen on this forum and others people going with SS (Super Stock?) leaf springs, are these worth getting for the extra power or? I have no idea what they look like? Do they look the same or are they thicker/wider in appearance and fit? What other mods have to be done to fit them? The car is a 71 Cuda. I'm looking at getting 295s on a 15x10" wheel with 5-1/2" back spacing, they are cop rims and were the only BS size they came with on a 15x10" wheel. So, leaf spring relocation kit will be in order I'm guessing.


TIA,
NZ
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60




nivvy

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007 - 09:16:18 PM »
I defiantely recommend the SS springs... I got the 3400lb set and like the stance of my car! from the ground to the wheelwell lip on my car is 26 3/8 and I do have a lowering kit and im gonna lower the rear a little... I love the tucked look...

rear height is 26 3/8   - tire diameter is 28"
front is         24 3/8   -  tire diameter is 26"

« Last Edit: April 25, 2007 - 09:23:28 PM by StrOkEr »

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007 - 09:28:20 PM »
I defiantely recommend the SS springs... I got the 3400lb set and like the stance of my car! from the ground to the wheelwell lip on my car is 26 3/8 and I do have a lowering kit and im gonna lower the rear a little... I love the tucked look...

rear height is 26 3/8   - tire diameter is 28"
front is         24 3/8   -  tire diameter is 26"



Thanks StrOkEr, did you need to modify anything else to put the SS springs in?
Or is it a straight swap for the factory springs? If I want to get a relocation kit, will these springs accept it?

Car looks good mate. :cheers: Ps: Aren't you selling it?  :-\
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

nivvy

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007 - 09:38:04 PM »
Yes it will fit fine! I used the 3/4 relo kit from mopar...but I put in a b body axel because the springs seats are in the perfect spot to accept the 3/4 offset shackles! and also the b body rear is narrower that the e body !!!  :burnout:

but arent you gonna run a dana 60 ... may have to move perches a little but other than that I just  dropped all the old junk and mounted up the shackes / front spring hangers and bolted the springs in and then dropped the rear in! I mounted the SS spring on the upper hole on the front spring hanger to make the car sit lower! also I used a solid front spring eye bushing for strength!

Yes my car is for sell!............. hmmm! If it hits rerve ..wonder what I'm gonna do with an all aluminum indy max block???  :bigsmile:

ya know I was born in 1971 !!!!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007 - 09:40:20 PM by StrOkEr »

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007 - 09:39:15 PM »
Hey Carl, I must have missed something.....I've been seeing all the posts re:this '71 project but what ever happened to the '73? green cuda that you had?
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007 - 10:13:35 PM »
Yes it will fit fine! I used the 3/4 relo kit from mopar...but I put in a b body axel because the springs seats are in the perfect spot to accept the 3/4 offset shackles! and also the b body rear is narrower that the e body !!!  :burnout:

but arent you gonna run a dana 60 ... may have to move perches a little but other than that I just  dropped all the old junk and mounted up the shackes / front spring hangers and bolted the springs in and then dropped the rear in! I mounted the SS spring on the upper hole on the front spring hanger to make the car sit lower! also I used a solid front spring eye bushing for strength!

Yes my car is for sell!............. hmmm! If it hits rerve ..wonder what I'm gonna do with an all aluminum indy max block???  :bigsmile:

ya know I was born in 1971 !!!!

First of all, good luck with the sale mate. :2thumbs:

I will be buying a Dana 60, a Hemi + Manual may make mince meat of the 8-3/4 after time.
I'll either get a E or B-Body diff, not 100% sure yet, depends if it's easier to fit 295's plus maybe SS springs.

Is the main reason people convert to super stock springs because they're heavy duty?
Or is it merely for a better stance? Perhaps wheel hoping is reduce under braking and hard acceleration?

Thanks for you help. :cheers:
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007 - 10:15:09 PM »
Hey Carl, I must have missed something.....I've been seeing all the posts re:this '71 project but what ever happened to the '73? green cuda that you had?

:lol2: You're not the first to ask.  :thumbsup:

I have the 73 in storage and will build that into a street/strip custom high hp car at a later date.
The car I'm doing or going to be building is a 71 Cuda 426ci Hemi 5-Speed Keisler. Triple black etc etc.....


:cheers:
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2007 - 12:33:15 AM »
the SS springs look virtually identicasl to stock , except for the longer front mount , there are about 5 different weight ratings though , & the car will sit somewhat higher , & traction is enhanced

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Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2007 - 03:29:40 AM »


Thanks Neil, sounds like too many reason not to upgrade IMO.
I'll look into them, any prefer brands you boys are using? And what weight would I be looking at?

The Hemi will either be full aluminium or cast iron with aluminium heads. So, basically a small block weight or around the weight of a 440. Does it matter if I run a higher weight rating to be safe or do the springs have to be for that weight (there or there abouts) to see the full benefits and work properly?

Thanks once again. :2thumbs:
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

nivvy

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2007 - 05:05:29 AM »
I defiantely recommend the SS springs... I got the 3400lb set and like the stance of my car! from the ground to the wheelwell lip on my car is 26 3/8 and I do have a lowering kit and im gonna lower the rear a little... I love the tucked look...

rear height is 26 3/8   - tire diameter is 28"
front is         24 3/8   -  tire diameter is 26"



Like I said NZ mine are the 3400 lb set and you see the stance of my car mounted on the upper hole of the spring hanger and the 325/50/15's you want are 28" tall as well... using higher rated pound SS springs will lift the a$$ end of your car up higher! I had the 3600lb set originally and didnt like the stance off the car at all... was too high in the rear... someone else here on the board had the 3600's and switched to the 3400's like I did!
I guess the first thing to do is figure out the ride height you want! mine is 26 3/8 currently  :burnout: I have a 440 and the hemi is a little heavier... I also have the .960 torsion bars up front!

Offline HP2

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2007 - 09:06:02 AM »
SS springs were designed for high power, drag racing applications. For them to work effectively, they are going to put your rear up in the air some. The whole priciple behind the super stock spring is to improve e.t. They have a 2" shorter front segment, which will require a longer front hanger, and they basically act like a traction bar under load. At launch, they will pivot the car up and force the axle/tires down, improving traction. This is why a properly set up mopar will lift up under accelleration. They are going to be a bias design, which means the right side will have more leafs than the left side. Don't mix them up side to side. This design is to counteract the torque steer produced by a high powered engine and allows the car to launch straight. With the torque a Hemi produces, you are going to need this.

Also, there are differences between B and E body SS springs. Get the wrong ones and they will mess up your shackle angles, if you can even get them installed.

While they can be driven on the street and aren't a huge detriment to turning corners, they aren't exactly designed for handling applications. This is because the arch was designed into them to lever the car up, and they do not accept high side loading very well. They also have a high spring rates to them, around 160# per inch, so you now will have a vehicle that has a higher rear spring rate than the front. Great for drag racing, not so great a combo for handling. For comparison, the stock mopar 4 leaf pack is around 110#, the oval track springs are 120#, the stock hemi XHD design are 140#. To get a good handling balance to offset a SS spring pack, you would need to run a 1.0 or 1.12 torsion bar with a 1" front sway bar.

Now, with that said, they will probably still perform better than some other GM or Ford leaf spring cars out there, they just aren't as effective at controlling lateral loads as a spring that sits flat when installed. Don't expect a SS equiped car to act like a circuit racer and you'll be fine.

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2007 - 09:12:18 AM »


Thanks HP2 and strOkEr.


HP2 - So, in your opinion, is it worth getting or will my stock leafs be fine with a 500-550hp Hemi and 5-speed?
If I don't need it I want get it basically. I'm just thinking or looking out for the car, that's all. I like to build my cars tough and reliable.


:cheers:
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

Offline HP2

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2007 - 05:53:25 PM »
Well, in an honest assesment, how are you going to use the car? Is it a cruiser? Will it be a predominatly show vehicle? Will it be a street/strip cruiser and what percentage of each? Will you ever be running it on a closed course circuit or road coarse?

I think it is safe to say that the stock 425 rating of the Hemis was conservative and they are closer to 465-475 or so. The XHD packs held up reasonably well to this so that and a snubber may be okay. Then again, if you never plan on course driving and occasionally hit the strip with a fair amount of street driving, the SS pack with an adjustable hanger maybe okay. There also is the possibility of creating a hybrid set up by using the SS spring hanger and a XHD A body pack. This  would create a spring pack that is the length of a SS pack, but would provide a flat, high rate for handling. This would provide the same amount of chassis seperation under accelleration that a SS pack would without the assocaited arch that comes with them.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2007 - 11:45:38 PM »
most of my builds exceed 500 HP & most use the HD springs with no issues although Ricks Chall has sagged almost 2" which could be the mexican steel or it looks like the front spring eye has been slightly bent with the torque

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Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Leaf Springs - SS or Stock?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2007 - 02:40:33 AM »


Thanks guys, looks like I'll need them now as I'll be going with the 528ci. Long story but I updated my other thread. The 426 has a bad lack of grunt down low and even if I built it to 550hp they said it still would have that. This is from Tim Banning's shop and Bartons. So, I'm not going to argue with them. I'll be building the 528ci to as stock or mild as I can get, so, around 600-620hp. Not 700-750 as my first idea/build was going to be.

:cheers:
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60