Author Topic: Got An Idea - Technology for Tuning (Read 2549 times)

matt63 · « **on:** May 01, 2007 - 07:46:00 PM »

I've been thinking about this little project for awhile and finally got it going. The local Mopar guy at the speed shop suggested I try the Innovate digital wide band air/fuel meter since I haven't had any luck jetting carbs properly by reading the plugs which seems like quite an art. It seems that carbs are never quite right out of the box whether it's Holley or a Demon. My plugs were fouling which was driving me crazy. I bought this Innovate LM-1 meter yesterday which comes with a hand held digital readout/data logger and an O2 sensor and some cables. I got the bungs welded into both collector adaptors today ($10) and should be ready to go in the next few days time permitting. We'll see how this little experiment works! I've read a few articles that were quite positive about this device. I'm sure it's not new for the Tuners who work on the newer stuff.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php

BIGSHCLUNK · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2007 - 08:21:50 PM »

I've heard about something like this. If it works it could sure make things EZ... keep us posted!

IMNCARN82 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2007 - 08:42:39 PM »

TKat13 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2007 - 08:45:06 PM »

I always wondered why more people didn't do this to our cars... mine is still engineless so I don't have a need yet...

Keep me posted, I am very interested in your results, I can not imagine tuning a car with out this type of setup being I grew up with O2 sensors in my (shhhh, mustangs, I know, but Ma Mopar didn't have any 2 doors with v8s and I sure wasn't driving a chevy...

)

matt63 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2007 - 08:54:24 PM »

I'm going to set-up the idle mixture first, then jet the primaries (i'll disconnect the secondaries), then jet the secondaries last. From what I've read I should aim for about 12.8 A/F ratio and keep it a little rich. It will be interesting to see how good carbs are through the rpm range. First thing I will need before I get started is to get power to my cigarette lighter.....

Jacksboys · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2007 - 12:03:15 AM »

Quote from: matt63 on May 01, 2007 - 08:54:24 PM

From what I've read I should aim for about 12.8 A/F ratio and keep it a little rich.

12.8 A/F ratio should be for WOT. At a steady cruise (highway), you can go 14.4 A/F ratio and idle should be around 13.5 to 14.0 A/F to keep the engine cool. All of this will depend on your driving style and the specs of your engine.

I have the narrow band sensor on my car and it sure helped with tuning my carb, but I know your's will work even better.

Good luck and keep us posted

ntstlgl1970 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2007 - 12:15:33 AM »

I bought one of these for my car as well, they are really popular with the DIY fuel injection crowd....

matt63 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2007 - 08:37:53 AM »

I originally thought about a narrow band sensor but was told that they aren't great for tuning as they only tell you that you are lean or rich but don't tell you by how much. I know that the stoichiometric air/fuel mixture is 14.7 which should be achievable with a fuel injection set-up. I'm guessing carbs will give quite a variance with different rpms, loads, temperatures, etc. so I'll have to play it safe so it never leans out especially at WOT. If it stops raining and they sweep the sand off the roads I'll make some more progress on this.

widing'cuda · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2007 - 10:41:07 AM »

Jacksboys · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2007 - 02:16:41 PM »

Quote from: matt63 on May 02, 2007 - 08:37:53 AM

I'm guessing carbs will give quite a variance with different rpms, loads, temperatures, etc. so I'll have to play it safe so it never leans out especially at WOT.

I found that my Edelbrock carb was not too hard to tune as long as you have a bunch rods and jets to play with. It has three different setting to play with; idle, cruise, and WOT. I decided to run mine a little on the rich side, so it would help with performance and cooling.

You are correct about the narrow band, it is accurate at 14.7, but as you move away from that, it is not real reliable. I mainly wanted to make sure I was not running lean. I am glad I got it because I had trash in my carb which was making it run lean at idle and cruise. It runs great now.

matt63 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2007 - 03:27:00 PM »

Rejetting Holleys is a pain the the butt especially when you are using the trial and error method. I would think that Holley would err on the fat side with their jetting which seems right based on how my plugs and exhaust pipes look.

MEK-Dangerfield · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2007 - 04:48:35 PM »

Quote from: matt63 on May 02, 2007 - 03:27:00 PM

Rejetting Holleys is a pain the the butt especially when you are using the trial and error method. I would think that Holley would err on the fat side with their jetting which seems right based on how my plugs and exhaust pipes look.

I agree with you... as of 2 years ago. Have you looked at your spark plugs lately? Back then, I was slightly rich, but going down one size in the primaries was too much. So I was happy with "slightly rich". I have been playing with a new carb now. I have NOOO clue as to how to read the spark plugs. I have gone from size 70-80 on the primaries, and the plugs look gray, not rich.

I think the fuel additives are messing with me. I noticed after I got beyond size 76, my car became a dog. Just my 2 pennies here.

Mike

Jacksboys · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2007 - 11:31:05 PM »

Hey matt, just remember not to use any leaded fuels with your O2 sensor, it can cause them to go bad fast.

matt63 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2007 - 08:59:51 PM »

Well i got it installed and started the car. Initially the Cuda runs real lean - 20:1 which is to be expected especially since I have no choke and it's 8 C (45F). No wonder it won't idle on it's own! As the engine warms up the A/F ratio starts dropping. Once I could get the engine to idle on it's own it came down to about 13.5 which is about right. If it stops raining this weekend I'll get the Cuda on the road and start the tuning process. So far I think this digital A/F meter is a pretty slick device. There is only 2 read-outs. One is the A/F ratio and the other is Lambda which is just another way of expressing the A/F ratio. Lambda=1 equates to 14.7 A/F ratio. With this particular kit it's not meant for a permanent installation as it's powered via the cigarette lighter although a different model is available which has a digital gauge. I can data log the A/F readings and upload them to my computer but I don't think I'll need that if I can get a volunteer to log them while I drive. It's questionable whether my daughters would dare volunteer for that job.

HP2 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 04, 2007 - 11:45:09 AM »

Additives and blends in modern gas make reading plugs a tad bit different than in days past. You are really going to need to look deep into the plug body to get far enough down on the insulator to see what you need. Combine that with some fo the high energy ignitions available and it is no where as easy as it used to be.

Just curious, did you ever make any adjustments with a vacuum guage? It can be a lot of help in carb tuning.

Author Topic: Got An Idea - Technology for Tuning (Read 2549 times)

matt63

Got An Idea - Technology for Tuning

BIGSHCLUNK

Re: Got An Idea - Technology for Tuning

IMNCARN82

Re: Got An Idea - Technology for Tuning

TKat13

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matt63

Re: Got An Idea - Technology for Tuning

Jacksboys

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ntstlgl1970

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matt63

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widing'cuda

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Jacksboys

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matt63

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MEK-Dangerfield

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Jacksboys

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matt63

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HP2

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