Author Topic: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?  (Read 4865 times)

nivvy

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2007 - 06:12:57 AM »
The heck with those chassis dynos....the best way is to run down the 1/4 mile and use the weight of the car and mile per hour factor and then you will have your true RWHP ...  :burnout:

A 610HP 528 Hemi @ 3700lbs will run appx a 11.20 @ 120
which equates to a 3700lb car going 120mph is 500RWHP

« Last Edit: May 10, 2007 - 06:15:30 AM by StrOkEr »




Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2007 - 07:28:41 AM »
The heck with those chassis dynos....the best way is to run down the 1/4 mile and use the weight of the car and mile per hour factor and then you will have your true RWHP ...  :burnout:

A 610HP 528 Hemi @ 3700lbs will run appx a 11.20 @ 120
which equates to a 3700lb car going 120mph is 500RWHP



That doesn't sound right? Not the "610hp part..." the using the ET to get a true RWHP figure, surely not? :clueless:
I have heard and seen this formula on car calculator websites but to me, there's way too many variables? What if you get a bad run? Bog off the line? Even if you think you've run the best 1/4 (in your mind) ever in that car it still may not be the best the car can go. On a dyno it doesn't matter about missed shifts or bogging, once you're in gear floor it and then that's it.


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nivvy

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2007 - 07:52:24 AM »
I really dont think i'll ever mess with a chassis dyno.... I think they are pointless!  your 1/4 time is your 1/4 time no matter what any simulator / machine tells you! like some people have mentioned all chassis dyno's will give you a different number....

1/4 time & weight will tell you the truth hands down! the only error would be in the driver or like you said if the car is not up to par and of course weather conditions! So you make about 6 passes on a good day and you got an average!

If your car isnt up to par a chassis dyno wont help either!

and of course the old saying what good is all the horsepower if you cant get it to the ground! a car with 50 more RWHP on a "chassis dyno" could easily lose to a car that can put it to the ground! so if you really think about it nothing beats a good ole fashioned 1/4 timeslip!

just my .02!  :burnout:

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2007 - 08:42:48 AM »
I really dont think i'll ever mess with a chassis dyno.... I think they are pointless!  your 1/4 time is your 1/4 time no matter what any simulator / machine tells you! like some people have mentioned all chassis dyno's will give you a different number....

1/4 time & weight will tell you the truth hands down! the only error would be in the driver or like you said if the car is not up to par and of course weather conditions! So you make about 6 passes on a good day and you got an average!

If your car isnt up to par a chassis dyno wont help either!

and of course the old saying what good is all the horsepower if you cant get it to the ground! a car with 50 more RWHP on a "chassis dyno" could easily lose to a car that can put it to the ground! so if you really think about it nothing beats a good ole fashioned 1/4 timeslip!

just my .02!  :burnout:

You're not really making any sense Stroker? :clueless: A car with 50 more rwhp may loose but it would only be driver area or loss of traction. I know hp is no good if you can't get it too the ground but it's besides the point when we're talking about rwhp. Cars who spin don't get it to the ground per-se but that's not because of rwhp, it's lack of traction. We're talking about what's at the rear wheels not what's getting to the ground.

I still totally disagree with the 1/4 mile & weight equation. 6 passes, 50 passes the information is totally inconsistent (with a manual). You could run 1 pass at 13.4 1 pass at 12.9, 1 pass at 14 and one pass at 13.5. Weight will vary on runs (lower fuel weight) and atmospheric conditions will change through out the day. On a dyno you're in one place for only 5-10 minutes where you're in one spot in one gear and the air/atmospheric conditions remain roughly the same. If you car isn't up to par on the chassis dyno it won't help either but that's why it's on their in the first place, you'll soon find out if it's an eagle or bogey, or, as you say, on par.

Having said all this, I could see the possibility if the car was an automatic though. I'm not for or against for dynos but I'd sooner believe a print out of a dyno sheet than a 1/4 mile slip & weight machine.


Interesting topic. :cheers:
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Offline HP2

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2007 - 08:47:46 AM »

so I would say a 465HP Hemi would be 372RWHP ..... I cant believe it would be 200RWHP


Since it isn't readily apparent in my signature or profile, I live at the base of Pikes Peak, in an altitude that kills horsepower. The static altitude where I am at is 6000 ft. Air density altitude on any given day, because of the thin air and resulting heat because of the lack of atmosphere, usually comes in somewhere between 8000-10000 ft above sea level. The government require jet pilots to wear oxygen at that leel, yet we run our cars in it daily. The only way around it is a lot of compression or forced induction. This is how I was able to run an 11:1 motor with a very small cam (215 @ .050) on pump gas without any detonation at all.

Chassis dynos are great for the simple fact that a pull only take 15-20 seconds. Then you shut it down, make an adustment  and do it again. The tuning I've done in one afternoon on the dyno usually takes me 3 to 4 days at the strip. Another issue with my location, there are only two drag strip within an hour in an area of 3 million people. Needless to say, the track is packed regularly. The opening day test and tune in Denver had over 300 cars. On a good day, I can make 4 passes. In four hours on the dyno, I can make 25-30 pulls. The payback is huge. Then I can go to the track and enjoy it instead of thrashing and loosing first round trying to nail down a new combo.


Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2007 - 08:59:45 AM »
I totally agree , I really do not care about the actual # achieved on a chassis dyno but as far as consistant comparitive testing & limiting potential failure the chassis dyno works , on most cars I have tuned very closely on the street or track I can consistantly get 15 hp more minimum tuning on a dyno & usually in an hour or so . I have seen gains of 60-70 HP as well

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Offline 360 'CUDA

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2007 - 09:06:22 AM »
SO the Track Dyno is the most accurate horsepower measurement but the Chassis Dyno is a great learning tool for tuning.  

The Track Dyno says my red 'CUDA puts out 272 RWHP   :bananasmi   :woo:

nivvy

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2007 - 09:55:38 AM »
Well said 360Cuda.... I totaly agree...
Yes NZ a Chassis Dyno would best the best for tuning but thats about it for me...
But if you think about what you said NZ Driver error is still driver error so if you can't drive the car who's fault is that? and also suspension has to be dialed in as well to get best ET's which a chassis dyno does neither of these!
just my .02 thats all! Not trying to start an argument!

Dial the engine in on chassis Dyno then dial it in at the track!

Here in the states most people brag about their ET's....If you can't get it to the ground it's worthless! So i would rely on Ground Horsepower! hey maybe that will be the new next thing GHP ...lol

Boy if the Race world evolved around racing chassis dynos and computer simulators we would all have 1000HP cars that ran high 12's ... :clapping:
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007 - 10:04:18 AM by StrOkEr »

Offline HP2

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2007 - 10:05:16 AM »
You also can't reproduce the ram air effect a hood scoop will have when you run on a dyno, so actualy power will vary with that as well.

nivvy

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2007 - 10:10:42 AM »
You also can't reproduce the ram air effect a hood scoop will have when you run on a dyno, so actualy power will vary with that as well.

well said!

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2007 - 10:20:06 AM »

But if you think about what you said NZ Driver error is still driver error so if you can't drive the car who's fault is that? and also suspension has to be dialed in as well to get best ET's which a chassis dyno does neither of these!
just my .02 thats all! Not trying to start an argument!


Yes but when you ask how much hp someones car is making you never, ever, talk about the driver, it's the car they want to know about and how much hp it's making. What the driver does with that hp is irrelevant in terms of number talk. Argument? LOL Nah, we all good mate, just an interesting topic with people giving their thoughts & opinions.

 
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Offline 360 'CUDA

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2007 - 10:35:26 AM »
The track Dyno uses top speed in the quarter mile so the driver skill doesn't affect that too much.  A guy would have to really screw up the run not to run close to top speed every time

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2007 - 10:53:58 AM »


Oh, OK, well I apologise StrOkEr. I was thinking the "formula" was using ETs, that's where I was thinking it would be quite inconsistent. Still, I IMO, would feel more legit getting it from a machine than a track but each to his/her own. :biggrin: Question: How can a car run at top speed over 400 meters? Unless they have 4.10+ gears or? So, they should be crossing the line at around red line in top gear to get a true result? Just curious.....


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Offline 360 'CUDA

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2007 - 12:14:07 PM »
That's a good point but I think most cars will be close to topping out in a quarter mile. Unless you have a 2:56 gears or really tall tires.  Kind of reminds me of racing the ricers when they do the 1/2 mile flyby

Your right though, the Track Dyno works best on Strip or Street/Strip cars

Offline HP2

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Re: Does the power this car is putting down seem right?
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2007 - 02:32:09 PM »
Look at it this way, the e.t. tells you how well all the mechanical pieces work together to get you from point A to point B as QUICKLEY as possible.  A highly efficient drag chassis, well hooking tires, great weight transfer, high stall convertors, steep gear ratios all equate to low e.t.s.

The m.p.h. tells you the horsepower of a particular combination and the trap speed, which is calculated over a set distance at the very end of the strip. How FAST this section is run equals horsepower of the engine less any losses from convertor inefficiencies, parasitic drag, heavy wheels and tires, etc.

Of course this is all prefaced with the assumption that the driver stays in the throttle all the way through a run. You ever watch the races when a top fueler blows the tires into a cloud of smoke a 300 feet out and still run a 10 second e.t. at 60 mph? How about a bracket racer that runs a 15 second e.t. at 115 mph in 2nd gear? In the simplest terms, elapsed time is mechanical efficiency and miles per hour is horsepower.