Author Topic: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...  (Read 9722 times)

Offline 440Charger

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2007 - 08:29:58 PM »
...with the smallest intake valve for a given bore will run the best over the widest range of RPMs.

mopar would you say that the stock 440 valve size would be better than 2.14/1.81 on the street?
I love my 440...but it's not loving me back...yet




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2007 - 12:59:06 AM »
the 1.81 exhaust valve can help by adding short turn rAdius to the floor of the port

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Offline moper

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2007 - 10:30:01 AM »
Well, I tend to use more than strictly power to define how I build something. In dealing with 40 year old castings, I find it usually necessary to either replace seats, or use oversized valves in order to get the actual valve seat angle back up closer to the chamber. I'll seperate here into intake and exh sides..maybe that would help.

On exh sides- I install hardened seats, so seat angle placement is basically irrelevant. Very generally, a larger valve size will give you more low lift flow potential, because the bigger diameter means more flow area for any given lift than a smaller valve. Also, as CP said, pushing the seat out (towards the exh port opening) on the exh side means a larger radius on the short side turn, which is a big part of an exh port's ability to move decent numbers. It also means a cooler running exh valve, because it's transferring more heat to the head when it's closed.

On intake side - I will many times install the larger valves just because of the seat condition. I'll get more power from a seat placed properly than I'll lose from "low velocity due to a bigger valve". I quote that because it's common to hear, and can be misleading. A very fast port can benefit from a larger valve, because it helps the air slow down and make the turn around the valve. A large port (volume wise) that typically has lower low speed (rpm wise) performance can be hindered at those low speeds even further by too large a valve. Where an almost stock factory port may benefit slightly from delaying the point (lift wise) at which the port goes turbulent from too much velocity. In most ports, if the pushrod pinch is not modified, the valve size is not as important as most think. Because the "minimum cross section" will always be at that point in a stock head intake port. Lastly, on the intake, if its a 383 or smaller and the bore is less than 4.28 (383+.030) you will lose a lot more from the bore shrouding the intake valve. Many head shops will flow test on 4.5" bores, because it yeilds the best numbers. (hence the warnings about not racing flowbenches...) Quite a bit higher than what the head will typically flow on a 4.25 or 4.35 bore. It's the bore shrouding that lessens the value. And a smaller stock size valve (2.08) will flow much better on that type of engine. A "rough guide" for intake valve size is do not ever exceed 52% of the bore size on a race engine. A street engine (lower operating rpms) I like to stay at a max of 50%. So a 2.14 would be my choice over a 2.18 on a 440. Where 2.08 would be first choice (if seats make it possible) on a 383. If you're buying valves anyway, size doesnt matter. But if you have to buy and install 8 more seats, that's hundreds more.

Every builder has his own feelings on this. So I'm sure there are all kinds of opinions. But this line of thinking works for me... :bigsmile:

Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2007 - 02:12:31 PM »
You can get a set of e-brocks for $1350 at Flatlander.  Maybe cheaper elsewhere.

Yeah, you heard some folks say they need work, but a little cleanup w/the die grinder you can do yourself.

Why spend $1k+ on some old heads?  Unless you're going for the OEM look, the small amt of work needed for the RPM heads (I'm not talking about the Victors, which need some serious work to get the pushrods to work) is worth the coin IMHO.
'70 318-auto Chally 'vert
'71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
06 300c SRT8
04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

Offline 68mopar

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2007 - 03:26:37 PM »
Or you can just wait till Feb and buy a set of these.

http://www.440source.com/newproducts.htm

Thats' what I'm saving for.

Cheers
Andrew

Offline 1badcuda

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2007 - 04:44:27 PM »
Edelbrock 84 cc chambered best bang for the buck, already mildly ported and polished right out of the box and instant hp gain and weight loss. I love mine for 1400.00, best choice I made on my 440.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2007 - 04:51:38 PM »
what were the before & after dyno results or have you run it yet ?

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline 6packCuda

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2007 - 07:56:53 PM »
Or you can just wait till Feb and buy a set of these.

http://www.440source.com/newproducts.htm

Thats' what I'm saving for.

Cheers
Andrew


Dang, that sounds too good to be true.
Dave

Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2007 - 11:43:45 PM »
Chevy and Ford both have cheap al. heads from China (Eddy knock-offs) for less than $700/pr assembled.  Heard mixed reviews on them, but for the price, they were really good w/just a bit of work needed.

Looks like B/RB fans will have that option too next year!
'70 318-auto Chally 'vert
'71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
06 300c SRT8
04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

Offline 1badcuda

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2007 - 07:43:30 PM »
This engine was tired, it was 330 horse before the build and and just touching 550 horse at 5100 after the build, the key horsepower boosters were the heads and the pistons, Speed Pro 2295F .030 and Edelbrock 84 cc chambered heads right out of the box, course the cam didn't hurt either, its the new Lunati Voodoo cam 534/554, and 2 very well tuned 500cfm edelbrocks and an MSD ignition system.