Author Topic: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...  (Read 9729 times)

Offline ViperMan

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Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« on: May 16, 2007 - 08:24:38 PM »
For those of you who haven't been following I'm slowly starting out on my plan to build a 383 from scratch.  Yes I know it's the hardest way to do things, but I'm doing it for the experience and the bragging rights - "See that?  Hear that?  I built that..."

So I found a 383 block with mains, crank, and connecting rods.  Pickin' it up next week.  I want to start figuring out what to do for heads - figure I'll get some of the higher-ticket items out of the way so I can focus on little things like push rods, rockers, etc, later.

I know I can get original heads on ebay for cheap, but I don't know if I want to go that route...  I've been warned not to go aluminum because the weight gains are minimal, and the reaction of the two different metals to heat will necessitate frequent gasket replacements - I don't want to deal with it.

I'm guessing though that I can't buy NEW Steel heads - it's new aluminum or used steel.  Is this correct?  And if I do end up getting used heads on Ebay, what's the best way to get the most power out of them - be it porting/polishing, etc...?

Thanks for the help in advance.  Sorry I haven't been around for a while.

Jeff
2000 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe - 8.0L V10, 6-Speed Tremec
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited - Trail Rated - 4.7L V8, Auto
2010 Dodge Challenger SE Rallye - 3.5L V6, Auto (Wife's!)




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2007 - 11:52:02 PM »
Cometic Gaskets will keep the dissimilar metals sealed so you can run Alum heads without constant gasket replacement
 the Mopar Stage 5 Heads are available new in steel but the Better choice would be the Indy SR Iron heads
 I feel you need to port any head to get max perf out of them , no head will make max potential without port work

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Offline moper

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2007 - 06:36:34 AM »
If you are staying with a 383 displacement, I dont think you have to worry about needing a bigger head. A set of SRs with a std port window or Edelbrocks, or any MP stuff are already way too much port for your use. The best power will come from the smallest (by volume) port you can get, that moves the air fast (cfms). Another issue with 383s is the small bore size. They shroud valves a lot, and very easily. My advice would be to reuse a factory head. The use of a closed chamber design is preferred if possible, because it allows you to use the energy of a tight quench distance to help the mixture and add detonation resisitance. The airflow in a stock set of typical 452/906/915 intake ports is between 220 and 240 cfms depending on the head and bench, with a decently done performance valve job. That's enough in stock form to make 440-480hp on pump fuel. So, disregarding the "new stuff vs re-using old stuff" debates, I would go something like this: Locate a set of virgin 915 heads. I would install hardened exh seats, new guides, cut the spring seats and guide tops for positive seals, and do a performance 5 angle valve job, fitting 2.14 intakes and 1.74 exh valves. The 2.14s are to get a better seat, without having to replace the intake seats to reuse 2.08 valves. Part of a 5 angle job os an unshrouding cut in the chamber, the other angle is a bowl hogging cut in the port. Those two actions are equal to the majority if "stage 1" port jobs, and are part of the performance valve job anyway. With all new parts and the basic milling and cleaning/magging, you'd be looking at about $1200 in my area. And have a set of well matched performance heads that are ready to run another 80K miles. You can always spend to get more bling, but you dont have to. I know a couple 383s that run 12.0s in B bodys with heads just like this on pump gas. You could duplicate the work on a cheaper-to-buy set of 516s too. But there are sometimes issues with core shift in those castings that may make adding unleaded seats difficult on some heads. But they would save you a couple hundred off the top.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2007 - 07:02:14 AM »
 :iagree:
 I was just listing other options

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sleepychallenger

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2007 - 07:06:30 AM »
good info for us 383 guys, keep it coming

Offline Robb

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2007 - 09:40:21 AM »
If you are staying with a 383 displacement, I dont think you have to worry about needing a bigger head. A set of SRs with a std port window or Edelbrocks, or any MP stuff are already way too much port for your use. The best power will come from the smallest (by volume) port you can get, that moves the air fast (cfms). Another issue with 383s is the small bore size. They shroud valves a lot, and very easily. My advice would be to reuse a factory head. The use of a closed chamber design is preferred if possible, because it allows you to use the energy of a tight quench distance to help the mixture and add detonation resisitance. The airflow in a stock set of typical 452/906/915 intake ports is between 220 and 240 cfms depending on the head and bench, with a decently done performance valve job. That's enough in stock form to make 440-480hp on pump fuel. So, disregarding the "new stuff vs re-using old stuff" debates, I would go something like this: Locate a set of virgin 915 heads. I would install hardened exh seats, new guides, cut the spring seats and guide tops for positive seals, and do a performance 5 angle valve job, fitting 2.14 intakes and 1.74 exh valves. The 2.14s are to get a better seat, without having to replace the intake seats to reuse 2.08 valves. Part of a 5 angle job os an unshrouding cut in the chamber, the other angle is a bowl hogging cut in the port. Those two actions are equal to the majority if "stage 1" port jobs, and are part of the performance valve job anyway. With all new parts and the basic milling and cleaning/magging, you'd be looking at about $1200 in my area. And have a set of well matched performance heads that are ready to run another 80K miles. You can always spend to get more bling, but you dont have to. I know a couple 383s that run 12.0s in B bodys with heads just like this on pump gas. You could duplicate the work on a cheaper-to-buy set of 516s too. But there are sometimes issues with core shift in those castings that may make adding unleaded seats difficult on some heads. But they would save you a couple hundred off the top.

FWIW
Im doing almost exactly what Moper is listing here right now for my street only 440.   

915 heads from ebay -   417$ to my door
Local Valve job as described above with new valves (not including springs) 1100$ total cost (includes mag check and everything else.   I had a quote for a little less at another shop, but I trust the shop I am dealing with.

Comparison:  For just a straight valve job on 452 heads reuisng the valves and no port work or valve changes, however they did machine the spring seats a bit,  it was around 525$ (not including springs) same shop.


Instead of the 915's I considered buying aluminum or Indy's but I was put off from buying anything from what I read on the Mopar sites with how many of them needed rework (mo money),  plus I have a lot of bolt-ons and I didnt want to have to mess around with accessory bolt holes that may or may not be there (correctly), on the aftermarket versions.

Good luck !

70 Challenger SE  (440 SIX PACK / Keisler 5 speed, R/T SE replication)       68 Sport Satellite Convertible 383 Super Commando / 727  Survivor

2002 Trans AM WS6 convertible:  DD
1999 4Runner 4x4:  lifted-locked-armored  expedition vehicle
1990 Jeep XJ 4x4:  Front Dana 60, GM-14bolt rear, 3 link, 4link, 5.38 detroits, beadlocked 40's, stretched to 110" wb  Rock Crawler

nivvy

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2007 - 09:56:41 AM »
I will be selling a super nice set of 906's when I get my Indy EZ's

906 Full Port/Polish
2.14*1.81 Manley Severe Duty Valves
Comp Double Springs
Titanium Retainers
10* Locks
ARP Head Bolts

Ready to bolt on............

Offline ViperMan

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2007 - 05:00:40 PM »
906 heads seem a lot more common than 915's...  Only two auctions on ebay as of right now.

There's a gorgeous set of 906's up right now - look freakin' brand new.

Jeff
2000 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe - 8.0L V10, 6-Speed Tremec
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited - Trail Rated - 4.7L V8, Auto
2010 Dodge Challenger SE Rallye - 3.5L V6, Auto (Wife's!)

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2007 - 12:02:12 AM »
the Mian problem with 906 heads is the lack of quench capabilities without using Custom a dome piston

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Offline moper

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007 - 10:32:28 AM »
What CP said... 906s were in the hundreds of thousands over 3 years ('68-71) on almost every big block. 915s are '67 only, and then only some were the 1.74 exh valve. I've enver had a set personally, but I've seen pics of 1.60 exh valve 915 heads. And of those made, a bunch have been ported and ruined, or cracked. So it's hard to find a set of virgin ones. And 906s have those 2-car sized chambers that modern engine design says you should try not to use.

Offline ViperMan

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007 - 03:05:09 PM »
So erm, what am I to do?  If 906's are no good, and 915's are next to impossible to come by, and aluminum is too much trouble down the road...

 :dunno:
2000 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe - 8.0L V10, 6-Speed Tremec
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited - Trail Rated - 4.7L V8, Auto
2010 Dodge Challenger SE Rallye - 3.5L V6, Auto (Wife's!)

Offline Robb

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2007 - 03:07:10 PM »
915s are out there.   check ebay.   also check 440source.com

70 Challenger SE  (440 SIX PACK / Keisler 5 speed, R/T SE replication)       68 Sport Satellite Convertible 383 Super Commando / 727  Survivor

2002 Trans AM WS6 convertible:  DD
1999 4Runner 4x4:  lifted-locked-armored  expedition vehicle
1990 Jeep XJ 4x4:  Front Dana 60, GM-14bolt rear, 3 link, 4link, 5.38 detroits, beadlocked 40's, stretched to 110" wb  Rock Crawler

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2007 - 06:16:13 PM »
the earlier 516 head is more common & I have used a lot of these , you need to open the exhuast out to 1.74 or 1.81 & I install hard seats as well but at least they are a good closed chamber head

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sleepychallenger

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2007 - 08:22:11 AM »
what are the heads on a 70 383 HP?

Offline PlumCraZRT

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Re: Let's talk Cylinder heads... Come on, ya wanna...
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2007 - 11:53:17 AM »
So erm, what am I to do?  If 906's are no good, and 915's are next to impossible to come by, and aluminum is too much trouble down the road...

 :dunno:

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