Electric Gremlins

[Mike71Cuda]

Wen to fire up my new engine today and came across elctric problems.
I am getting 12 volts at coil wire but when I connect to coil and crank it over, it drops to 8.5.
Not fire the plugs at all

Also getting some residual power coming off the electronic ignition (orange box)
Ballast resistor got real hot too

Any help would be appreciated
Smitty

[Bullitt-]

1st make sure you have a good rotor button in the distributor, heard too many stories of these being left out....I would put a jumper from the battery to the input terminal of the ballast resistor to eliminate possible issues in the electrical system. If the car starts then you know everything from the ballast resistor forward is good, if not issues with the electronic ignition, coil, distributor, wiring will have to be hashed out.
   One of our local club members was having problems not getting enough power to the ignition to start the car, because of old wiring, & engineered this relay setup to solve his problem. http://www.tvmoparclub.com/files/tech/Quick%20Start%20Relay.pdf

Also I have heard several stories of tachometers killing the ignition, & you might want to test your coil.

[MEK-Dangerfield]

With the key in the "on" position, pull the plug off the ignition box and see if you have 12 volts on one of the pins of the connector. Also, one of the pins on the orange box should be connected to ground. From what you have described so far, I'm not seeing the problem. It could definitely be distributor related as bullitt88 said. Also, there is a little pick-up coil that runs between the distributor and the ignition box. It should measure 200-600 ohms.


  Mike

EDIT: If the distributor is new, did you set the gap for the reluctor?

[Mike71Cuda]

Thanks for the replies.
Have not messed w/ reluctor at all
Distrib button is fine
Did get ground on bottom left pin on Orange boxjavascript:void(0);


Had a friend check out sytem with his Chally and he gets 12 to resistor on other side of it he gets 6.3 and at coil 6.3. Now its a little weker but car starts at 6.3. I am getting 8.3

Going to do the coil test but a friend told me to shake coil and listen for anything, if it rattles it is bad

[Mike71Cuda]

Another friend suggest sthat I go with an MSD Ready to run dist (8387). and forget all the orange box nonsense. $400 at Summit. Any thoughts pro or con here?

[Bullitt-]

Another friend suggest sthat I go with an MSD Ready to run dist (8387). and forget all the orange box nonsense. $400 at Summit. Any thoughts pro or con here?

Lotta dollars to spend when you don't know where the problem is. Is this a HYPO setup or more stock?

[MEK-Dangerfield]

Looking at your original post, what did you mean by "residual power" coming off the ignition box? If the connector going to it doesn't have 12 volts on one of it's pins with the key in the "on" position, then you have a bad ignition switch.

Again, is this a new distributor, or one that is known to of worked? If it is new and you didn't set the reluctor gap...  I would hate to see you spend BIG bucks on a MSD system, when the problem is probably an easy fix here.

  Mike

[JayBee]

Just my  . I know that poor frame grounds can cause problems, is the "orange box" grounded to the frame. Maybe it doesn't have to be, I don't know. To be on the save side I always sand away any paint before bolting anything to the frame.

[Chryco Psycho]

the ECU / Orange box needs a good ground , a poor ground can cause the box to fail

[Mike71Cuda]

Sorry for the confusion guys, I left some obviously important info out.
Had a chrome box that worked fine (I thouoght), check it with ohmeter and it was all over the place 12, 6, 8, 4V(this was residual power comment I made should have said fluctuating) replaced it with orange box which was a steady 12 .
New ECU: Have 12 v on one pin and 0 on other (orange box) so I think we are good there.

Distributor: is new out of box (a while ago-but untouched)

With coil wire: Was 12 off of teh coil, when connected with otehr wires to coil it dropped to 3.2, when cranked it jumped up to 8.2. My friend who is only 1 step ahead of me with ignition/electric did not know why or what to do to resolve.

Checking reluctor gap tonight, from what I see on forums its .008 right? thx for keeping me on track here

Not doing MSD anything at this point! Again thx
Making sure orange box is grounded but I think screwed to firewall would accomplish that (will check though)

If I had bad igintion switch, I would not get starter to crank over correct? That is not the case I get turnover just no spark.

I can bypass all (relay doiagram -thx for that too bullitt) to get engine up and running but I want to address and fix problem

[MEK-Dangerfield]

Sorry for the confusion guys, I left some obviously important info out.
Had a chrome box that worked fine (I thouoght), check it with ohmeter and it was all over the place 12, 6, 8, 4V(this was residual power comment I made should have said fluctuating) replaced it with orange box which was a steady 12 .
New ECU: Have 12 v on one pin and 0 on other (orange box) so I think we are good there.

Distributor: is new out of box (a while ago-but untouched)

With coil wire: Was 12 off of teh coil, when connected with otehr wires to coil it dropped to 3.2, when cranked it jumped up to 8.2. My friend who is only 1 step ahead of me with ignition/electric did not know why or what to do to resolve.

Checking reluctor gap tonight, from what I see on forums its .008 right? thx for keeping me on track here

Not doing MSD anything at this point! Again thx
Making sure orange box is grounded but I think screwed to firewall would accomplish that (will check though)

If I had bad igintion switch, I would not get starter to crank over correct? That is not the case I get turnover just no spark.

I can bypass all (relay doiagram -thx for that too bullitt) to get engine up and running but I want to address and fix problem

Thanks for the info. 

It is NOT your ignition switch if your voltage on the coil jumps up while cranking. You are correct about the reluctor gap spacing too. When I bought a new distributor, I had to do that. That is a high energy area, and I hope that is your problem here. It is mighty tight. That 8 mil gap almost leaves it touching.

I'm also wondering how you verified there is no spark. Did you hold a spark plug wire with insulated pliers close to ground to see if there was an arch while the engine was being cranked?


  Mike

[Mike71Cuda]

Mike,Have a day off Friday and I will be able to spend some more time with that, but that is where I was thinking to go next. From what I read on thi sand othe rforums it is .008 is that not the case (going from my cyber pals out there for all the correct info). Also going to test coil and swap out coils with my buddies just because it is an easy one to try
If we try this and have no result where to next?
Smitty

[Chryco Psycho]

.008 is correct for the reluctor gap in the dist

[duodec]

Run a test light (incandescent, not a timing light) from coil negative to ground. 

Crank the engine.  If the light flashes (hopefully regularly) then the ignition module is working, and your reluctor/pickup are at least close.  If the light change is not sharp and doesn't turn pretty much all the way off, check the ignition module ground.

Most digital VOMs will show a voltage average on coil negative when cranking; they can't respond fast enough to show the swing from +12 to nearly 0 at the rate they happen while cranking.

If the light is flashing when cranking and you are certain of the ignition module ground, then the problem almost has to be on the hight voltage side; coil, rotor, cap, plug wires, etc.

[Mike71Cuda]

Hey gang Happy Memorial Day!
Here is the latest:
Ran a test light on coil as Duo suggested-got a faint light on connection, when cranking got  strong solid (no flucuation) light.

Coil looks to be fine, more resistance than bullitts graphic

Going to Advance Auto right now for the following: voltage reg, ball resist, chrome/orange box, mag p/u in dist. All are pieces that I should have extras of anyway, right?

My DieHard battery is not keeping a charge so over to Sears too (BTW it had enough juice while trying to figure out last week). Good thing its a long weekend. Tried jumping spark but no luck. any other ideas?
Smitty