Author Topic: What's wrong with fram...  (Read 2518 times)

Offline basement

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What's wrong with fram...
« on: May 23, 2007 - 07:28:19 AM »
I think Fram air filters suck, but I've seen comments that their orange oil filters are lousy too. Can someone convince my why?




Offline ted

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2007 - 08:44:45 AM »
a bare bones product at premuim prices.
74 cuda, 70 challenger r/t

Offline go-fish

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2007 - 09:33:24 AM »
That's about right. Go to the store and buy one, cut it open and see for yourself. I am speaing of the orange oil filter with the black grippy thing.

Offline tactransman

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2007 - 10:07:11 AM »
Here is some info off the web:

Fram Extra Guard PH8A
This filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are glued in place.  The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap and easily leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan.  If you have a noisy valve train at startup, this filter is likely the cause.  The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak.  The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.

Fram Tough Guard TG8A

This filter has an improved filter element with more surface area (248 sqin), a heavy silicone anti-drainback valve with a good sealing surface, the same plastic pressure relief valve but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow.  In my opinion, the only real drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal.

Fram Double Guard DG8A

This is one of the most expensive filters you can buy.  Inside is a basic Fram Extra Guard (PH8A) filter element that has larger diameter holes at the end and has been pre-oiled.  You can see this in the picture above   I assume this is to hold the Teflon particles in the filter element before the unit is installed.  Don't put Teflon in your engine.  It does not belong there!  DuPont does not recommend using their Teflon product in internal combustion engines.

Mobil 1
M1-301

Like the Champ filter, this filter is made by Champion Labs.  However, it uses a unique end plate and a thicker can that make it the strongest filter available for wide distribution retail sale.  It also uses a synthetic media, which inproves filtration and flow.  I'm happy to say that this filter is not a fake.  It is definitely a unique design.

It uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles and is very strong.  It is rated just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters.  It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up.  However, as with all Mobil 1 products, expect to pay 2 - 3 times as much for this filter.

Wix

These filters are manufactured by the Dana corporation, who also manufactures all of the Wix clones.  These include NAPA and many OEM filters.
This filter has metal cartridge end caps, but has a separate bypass valve that rests against the bottom end cap, like the AC Delco.  I refer to this as a two-piece filter cartridge.  Like the Champion, it uses an anti-drainback valve that doubles as the bypass valve-to-backplate seal.  Instead of the leaf spring spacer that most filters use, these use a stiff coil spring at the top of the cartridge.  Like the Purolator, the filter element paper media is stronger than the Champion media.  The only drawback to this design is that the bypass valve seats metal-to-metal against the bottom cartridge end plate.  This could allow dirty oil to seep from the dirty side to the clean side of the filter, bypassing the element.  The design will not allow oil to seep back into the pan, though and the amount of oil that can get past is probably negligable.

Purolator
Premium Plus L30001
Here is a fairly well designed filter, especially for the price.  One odd thing about Purolator's filters is a string that is always wrapped around the filter element.  I assume that this is there to hold the element in place while the glue in the end caps cures.  Of all the Purolator-based filter I tested, there was one (the ProLine) that had filter element damage from this string.  Although it was one of five tested, I am weary of this design.  Even though the element was crushed a bit, it was not ripped.

The filter cartridge has an impressive surface area of 316 sqin, which is very close to the AC Delco Duraguard.  The difference is that Purolator's filter element is compressed into more pleats (51) than the AC Delco.  This may restrict flow somewhat, but not as much in this model than the Pure One.  It features a spring-loaded metal bypass valve and a nitrile rubber diaphram-type anti-drainback valve, which doubles as the seal between the backplate and the cartridge.  Like the Champion, this bypass valve is stamped right into the bottom end cap of the cartridge, so it is all one piece.


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Offline jeryst

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2007 - 10:18:08 AM »
So, what is the best oil filter to use in a classic engine? I don't consider cost a factor because so little miles get put on most of them, and it's cheap insurance.

Offline tactransman

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2007 - 10:24:52 AM »
Wix  :bigsmile:
Terry-tactransman 
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Union, Mo.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2007 - 10:29:00 AM »
I agree on WIX, also NAPA gold is also a WIX filter and if I remember right, WIX has a low cost alternative filter line Pro-Tec (this was a few years ago so not sure if still valid). When I worked in parts, we had an oil filter display just like in the picture, the WIX filter sold itself.....
On another note, the Fram HP (HP1) series filters, anyone have a picture of one of those cut open? Wonder how they compare.......
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline go-fish

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2007 - 10:48:12 AM »
I have one and will cut it. It may be a day or so but I am curious.

Offline mopar_guy

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2007 - 10:54:22 AM »
I have one and will cut it. It may be a day or so but I am curious.
please post pics when you get around to doing it i am also curious  :clueless:

Offline go-fish

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2007 - 11:02:27 AM »
Will do. I got it in a oil filter relocation kit and nevre used it. They won't fit in the stock location will they?

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2007 - 11:26:59 AM »
Not sure on a small block, big block they fit fine
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline go-fish

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2007 - 12:27:38 PM »
Small block fram is PH8A. Same as Ford 302. I am pretty sure they won't fit LA's or Maggies.

Offline cowboy

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2007 - 03:25:05 PM »
 :popcorn:
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Offline Stacked440

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2007 - 07:01:33 PM »
I've got a Napa gold on my motor right now...hasn't burned up my engine yet so it must be good!! :smilielol:
-Kyle-
1971 Challenger R/T clone 440/5-spd
1973 Duster - 5.7L Hemi swap project

Offline 70RTdroptop

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Re: What's wrong with fram...
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2007 - 07:14:36 PM »
Short answer - Fram sucks. Had one of their filters in my engine on a brand new rebuild a couple years ago, the filter basically imploded and sent all kinds of crap through the engine. That led to me pulling the engine again and going through it to make sure nothing got too badly damaged. Got lucky - only ended up replacing 1 piston that had a burned skirt. Fram? Never again - I'll talk 'em down whenever I can get anyone to listen. I use K & N - nice heavy-duty filter in my opinion.
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 440-6 convertible
1966 Ford Mustang convertible  - numbers matching (wife's car )