Author Topic: Which stroker kit would you buy?  (Read 2204 times)

Offline bb71challenger

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Which stroker kit would you buy?
« on: May 26, 2007 - 09:35:55 PM »
I am thinking seriously about getting a stroker kit from 440source.com and I was wondering which one to get. It is real enticing to go as big as I can because the cost of the kit is the same but after reading some threads on the subject and with my intention of having a nice street driven car I know that might not be the way to go. Has anyone here used their kit that offers their own piston? I have both a 68 440 or a 71 400 to use for the build. Please give your suggestions or post experiences. My gut instinct is to make the 400 into a 470 or 500 stroker and put 383 badges on the R/T hood. Thanks for any responses.
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Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2007 - 10:06:59 PM »


Not sure on what ci size to go for but when I was looking at stroking the 340 I found for best results to make your own kit up using the best pieces that you see fit. Mine was going to be put together by a pro (of course) so I would just listen tom him. That way the engine and combo is but perfectly to you tastes and the guess and R&D work is out the window, just my 0.271c :)
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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2007 - 10:12:52 PM »
I would love to buy a dream motor but I am on a pretty tight budget. I have a decent set of 906 heads that have mild porting and big valves in them. I still have the whole interior(changing from black to original white) and several body pieces yet to buy(trim, bumpers rechromed etc.) so I am trying to economize as much as possible. Pinching pennies and building mopars do NOT go together lol. I figure about 2k for a budget motor with the kit, cam/lifters, incidentals and machine work on the block.
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1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2007 - 10:15:39 PM »


I see and totally understand. I didn't go through with it and never got to work out the price difference but it will be quite close custom (pick you own parts) vs a kit. Have you looked into and calculated the difference? Maybe worth doing. Neil may know a more precise build cost.

 :dunno: :cheers:
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2007 - 10:28:06 PM »
For the money of a complete kit from 440 source I have priced parts and I can basically get a crank and maybe some rods for the same amount. If anyone knows of a way to piece together a kit from other sources I am all ears  :drool:
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2007 - 10:35:33 PM »


I think you'll be OK if you go "custom" mate. If you tell someone like Neil what you want I reckon he could probably get you within $500 of a kit price using much better pieces picked out by a Mopar nut lol. If it is $500+ that is still good, bite the bullet for better performance and parts, be worth it in the long run, without an engine it's a stationary project. :icon16:


:wave:
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2007 - 12:22:51 AM »
you will not beat th price of a 440 source kit , I would do a 451 or 470 stroke max in the 400 block 

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2007 - 01:39:20 AM »


Could you get close to the price though and are the parts used good or just a "kit" quality package?
I was just thinking if you could pay $500-$1,000 more and get a superior kit it's the way I'd go, extra money but better parts.

I was told it was the best way to do it when looking myself. :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: May 27, 2007 - 09:36:59 PM by NZ440R/T »
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2007 - 09:34:34 PM »
I was looking around and could not find a street dominator intake for a B engine. Do they not make one? if not is there an intake that is similar in function by some other manufacturer?
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2007 - 10:08:19 PM »
you can find them used on Ebay , for some reason Holley stopped making the low deck B engine Street Dom

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Offline matt63

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2007 - 09:42:18 AM »
I would love to buy a dream motor but I am on a pretty tight budget. ... I figure about 2k for a budget motor with the kit, cam/lifters, incidentals and machine work on the block.

If you're pretty firm on the budget you might want consider a good stock rebuild instead.  I would think this would push the limits of your budget and I'm assuming that carb, intake headers, head rebuilds, ignition, etc. is already covered outside of your budget.  Cam, pistons, rings, bearings, machine work, balancing and gaskets will eat $2K alone. The one thing I learned from my stroker rebuild is that all of the new parts have to be checked and some work will be required to get the parts fitted properly and within spec.  This includes piston pin fitting, rod sizing, etc.  Just a thought.
 
Matt in Edmonton

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Offline Bearcuda

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2007 - 10:16:35 AM »
I didn't even realize that 440 source existed until today from this thread. I spent about an hour on their website and was VERY impressed. They seem to be of the old school of thought that the customer is their most important asset. They apparently use the very best parts and keep the costs down by buying in mass. They could jack up the prices like other companies, but they seem to actually care about the customer and keep the prices low. I couldn't believe some of the prices on there and all of their stroker kits are the same cost. They go into advanced detail about their services and even have a step by step with pictures on how they balance their crankshafts. I was really impressed and I think I will definitely be doing business with them in the future.
1973 Cuda 440
1971 Javelin SST

Offline moper

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2007 - 10:59:08 AM »
A few things I can add here.
bb71- there is no way you can get a performance stock engine done for $2000. I'm not trying to sound harsh, but reality is it can't be done, even with you re-using original tins (valve covers, oil pan, timing cover, etc) and stock parts. the 440 Source parts are good value. They should not be confused with higher end (and higher priced) components. Brandon has been very successful in opening up a market for mid level priced performance parts. The value is there in terms of what you get for what you sepnd. However, there are certain realities involved with an engine rebuild. And some extra stuff that goes into a performance engine of a displacement that the factory never offered. It has limitations that impose themselves when you start going bigger. My advice would be to figure out what you want out of the car, then look at your budget, then decide what to do. 440 Source has a nice package for a B block to bring it up to 470. That would be my choice. But, the heads you'll need will need some work. At minimum a complete performance overhaul. So that by itself runs $1000 with parts. Also, the kits, as you option up for some things, the prices go up. I haven't had an order that didnt top $1800 after shipping. So be aware..That's what it costs. Machine work that must be done is straightforward stuff, but there are a couple things you could do to make things that much better. I would think a figure of $5500 would be very do-able for a 470 with iron heads, but that's just me.

If you aren't used to seeing the difference in parts, there is a large range of quality. Not that they arent good, or worth the effort. But as I've posted before, there are things you should look into before you assemble all your money and expect things to go perfect. If you're like me, you can't easily afford to do things twice. So make sure it's right before you start. The cranks have large radii which makes them very strong. This can interfere with bearings and clearances. The methods used to polish the journals tend to add a small amount of taper to the journals around the oil holes. So you want to make sure that taper doesnt extend all the way accross the journal. This has gotten better as time went by. But you should check every journal for size and taper. Plastigage cannot detect the taper. So paying a shop or buying the tools and learning how to use them is a definate. The connecting rods are .008 shorter than factory. If you go for 0 deck, factor that in. The rods typically need the pin ends honed. That's normal for any rod. But the inbstructions to use emery cloth by hand shoud be tossed. It costs me 4100 to have the rods cycled and size verified and the small ends pin honed. Emery sheds abrasives and those will imbed in the bushings, in addition, oil does not form a wedge well on an irregular surface. If you can't wet sand paint flat by hand, you can't sand the bushing surface anywhere near flat...lol. On the balancing. He has the best equipment, however by his own site, he uses the stated weights for the rods. They are not ever the same (matched) that well. A price of going with the less expensive..Eagle, Scat, and others have the same issues in thier less expensive lines. Of 4 kits' I've assembled, all have neeeded the rod weights equalized. He does not do this from what I've heard. If the weights are off, the balance job is off. Period. He bends way past backwards to answer questions, and address issues with the products. I know that first hand. He does a great job, and is making huge inroads in the process for all of us. Just be sure you're prepared to go the distance and get it complete, "right", and (close to  :biggrin:) budget and it will exceed your expectations.

Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2007 - 02:02:57 PM »
Wow, thanks, that was pretty a comprehensive response for sure. My heads were just done last year and should be ok but being a factory 906 head, even with the mopar performance template porting done and the 1.81/2.14 valves they will still be a bottleneck. I knew the parts were of good quality but not top tier by talking to another engine builder. He pretty much mirrors what you say in that you cannot just get the kit and expect no problems. I did not know that there were that many issues to deal with though. I know also not to try to build a 800 hp daily driver and expect those parts to live a long life. I guess it comes down to the same old story, do it super cheap like a re-ring or basic overbore rebuild or do it expensive and right. I absolutely do not want to do it twice but I do feel like I need a fresh bullet when I go to put my car back on the road. My 68 440HP was in great shape upon tear down, small lip on cylinders, crank and rod journals all in great shape, still shiny and cannot hang a nail on anything. It had 68k on it and I am tempted to ridge ream/hone and re-ring it to get me by while I save for a "real" rebuild. The bottom line is that quality and cheap seem to go together like oil and water.
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline Bearcuda

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Re: Which stroker kit would you buy?
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2007 - 07:36:28 AM »
Well, either 440 Source is lying or the people saying that they don't have high quality parts don't have any personal experience with their parts. It looks like their readers rides page speaks for itself. There are plenty of 10 sec and below cars on there. You don't run those kind of times without quality components. I wouldn't discount them so quickly.
1973 Cuda 440
1971 Javelin SST