Author Topic: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?  (Read 5694 times)

Offline matt63

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Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« on: July 03, 2007 - 08:37:22 AM »
My stock 22 inch rad (4 cored for $$$) isn't cutting it.  I added a shroud and a 7 blade fan but it didn't help at all.  The 160 thermostat just delayed the time it took to get to the old operating temp.  It likes to run at about 200 -205 F but will get to 210 in light traffic.  This is when it is 75F outside.  I'm a little nervous about hotter weather. 

The rad manufacturer's seem to not want to publish cooling capacities ie hp ratings so it is a big guessing game.  Perhaps there are too many variables????
Has anybody used a 22 inch aluminum rad behind a 460 hp 408 stroker or a 440?

Thanks,
Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD




Offline moparbulldog

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2007 - 11:49:26 AM »
I have the Jeg's Direct fit aluminum rad with my 440, and the core measures 22 inches, but it does not cut it.  I am going with an 26inch aluminum from Ron Davis Racing.  They came highly recommended from this and other sites.  The guy I talked to, Bill, told me about his car running hot in Arizona (Where Ron Davis is at) until he switched to a Ron Davis, it worked awesome, and now he works for them.  (probably just a sales pitch, but they were very helpful) I will let you know how everything goes out here in the 105+ temps in Sacto.  Hope this helps, I to have been frustrated by overheating and the guys on this board have helped me out many times.   

Offline 360 'CUDA

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2007 - 12:32:51 PM »
  I am going with an 26inch aluminum from Ron Davis Racing.  They came highly recommended from this and other sites.     

How much for that ?

Offline matt63

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2007 - 12:44:22 PM »
I really don't want to cut my rad support unless there is no other way.  The shop I deal with is recommending the Flexalite 22 inch rad w/electric fans.  I don't mind spending the $800 if it cuts my operating temps to 190 F but if it doesn't :pullinghair:Their tech line says it's touch and go with the electric fans.  What about installing an auxiliary pusher fan in front of the radiator?  Anyone try this?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2007 - 01:34:36 PM by matt63 »
Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD

Offline HP2

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2007 - 01:50:25 PM »
Before jumping to all that work and expense how about checking things like the A/F ratio, pulley ratios, timing, fan to radiator spacing, fan to shroud spacing, and grill inlet ducting.

Offline matt63

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2007 - 02:45:31 PM »
Before jumping to all that work and expense how about checking things like the A/F ratio, pulley ratios, timing, fan to radiator spacing, fan to shroud spacing, and grill inlet ducting.
I have an Innovate wide band AFR meter that shows my ratios are good (rich on the secondaries).  Timing is 16 initial and 38 overall.  The pulleys are stock ratio?? The fan is about an inch from the rad.  About half of it is outside of the shroud.  I just swapped from a 5 blade flex fan to a stock 7 blade flex type fan with no real effect.  I do think the 4 core rad was a mistake but live and learn.
Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2007 - 05:38:26 PM »
No personal experience, but I have read tooooo many posts here about electric fans not cutting it........What are you using to determine your operating temp. and have you verified with a second source that it is accurate?
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline torredcuda

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2007 - 05:52:35 PM »
 :iagree: My buddy thought his race car was running hot till he realized the cheap temp gage was off by +20 degrees.Use an oven/meat thermometer in the rad to confirm the gage reading.
Jeff
72 Barracuda 340/4spd  Torred
70 roadrunner 383/auto  In-Violet
70 Duster 360/auto drag car  (Petty Blue soon)
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Offline matt63

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2007 - 06:50:23 PM »
No personal experience, but I have read tooooo many posts here about electric fans not cutting it........What are you using to determine your operating temp. and have you verified with a second source that it is accurate?
It's a new Autometer electric temp gauge.
Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2007 - 06:54:45 PM »
It's a new Autometer electric temp gauge.

Doesn't mean it couldn't be off....worth checking out before spending more $.
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline HP2

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2007 - 09:26:30 PM »
I have an Innovate wide band AFR meter that shows my ratios are good (rich on the secondaries).  Timing is 16 initial and 38 overall.  The pulleys are stock ratio?? The fan is about an inch from the rad.  About half of it is outside of the shroud.  I just swapped from a 5 blade flex fan to a stock 7 blade flex type fan with no real effect.  I do think the 4 core rad was a mistake but live and learn.


Flex blades, even stock ones, are not very good. Factor in years of use and the flex in them is so soft they flatten out too easily. For a $5 experiment, find a fixed pitch, 7 blade stock fan without a clutch at the junkyard and try it. If it is creeping up in traffic, then your not moving enough air through it at low speeds, hence the worn out flex fan thought. If the fixed pitch fan moves enough air to keep it cool, then you can upgrade to a thermostatic clutch fan to keep air flow and reduce parasitic losses. FWIW, dyno testing has shown the factory fixed pitch clutch fan is worth more power than any flex unit, and it does it without compromising temp and speed differences.

Stock pulleys are another compromise. They were designed  to cool around 300 gross horsepower and you are way beyond that. While at the yard picking up a fan, check pulley diameters and try to find a larger water pump pulley, or a smaller crank pulley. Driving the pump slower will reduce cavitation and eliminate the potential for air pockets as well as allowing better heat transfer while the water is in the radiator.

The four core was not a mistake. Even a cheap, mexican made unit with thin tubes is going to have 25% more tube area than an old stock two row with thicker tubes. For grins, you can have any radiator shop perform a  pressure check on your cap to make sure it is holding pressure at the specified level.  If you want extra insurance, ditch the 14# unit and get a Stant Performance 20# cap. That increases the boiling point a fair amount.

Offline matt63

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2007 - 10:04:45 PM »
Thanks HP2.  I was thinking about trying one of those rigid plastic fans.  I had one on another car that worked fine.  I had the car out tonight.  It was a little humid (for us) and about 75 F.  It doesn't get much above 85 F here.  The temp stayed around 190 but would creep to 210 at idle.  I'm not sure if it will keep rising given the chance!  I may go for the clutch too.  What I am going to try is adding a 12 inch 1000 cfm auxiliary electric pusher fan on the front of the rad.  I figure this may help air flow through the thicker 4 core rad.  Any thoughts?
Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD

Offline Mopar73340

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2007 - 07:26:11 AM »
Find a 7 blade factory fan and get the heavy duty clutch unit. This will move the air at slow speeds and disengauge at higher speeds when you don't need it. Based opon your problems the car is running normal tems until you get into traffic so your air movement need improved at slow speeds. Pusher electric fans don't work as well as the puller ones but my experience shows that none will come close to the factory clutch 7 blade fan for amount of air moved. Just my  :2cents:
73-Challenger 340 727/GearVendors Auto
73-Challenger 408 Pistol-Grip 5-speed

Offline matt63

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2007 - 08:16:44 AM »
Find a 7 blade factory fan and get the heavy duty clutch unit. This will move the air at slow speeds and disengauge at higher speeds when you don't need it. Based opon your problems the car is running normal tems until you get into traffic so your air movement need improved at slow speeds. Pusher electric fans don't work as well as the puller ones but my experience shows that none will come close to the factory clutch 7 blade fan for amount of air moved. Just my  :2cents:
I was going to try the pusher fan as an aux fan.  I would keep the existing belt drive set-up.
Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD

Offline matt63

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Re: Aluminum Rad Recommendations?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2007 - 02:10:58 PM »
Bought a Flexalite 1500 cfm pusher fan for $100 including relay.  I'll let everyone know how this works.  It good be an inexpensive fix for borderline cooling systems or an aux fan for my new aluminum rad if it doesn't work out. :roflsmiley:
Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD