Barry Bonds / Pete Rose

[nivvy]

What do you guys think about him setting the all time homerun record! Personally I think he is a piece of sh!t steroid user....How the heck can Baseball let this go on and yet not let Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame for gambling??? aaaahhh I think Texas Holdem gambling is one of the most popular gambling games going on right now!

A guy told me one time and I think it is the best statement I ever heard! "Babe Ruth Hit all his homeruns on hotdogs and beer"....not steroids!

[MEK-Dangerfield]

I was all for Pete Rose, until he recently admitted betting on his own team. He only did this to sell his new book since I guess he was short of funds.? Why wait so long to tell the truth??  He lost me there!! 


As for Barry, I would like someone to tell me how to put on 30+pounds of muscle in the late 30's without using drugs.        I'm waiting...


  Mike

[heminut]

As for Barry, I would like someone to tell me how to put on 30+pounds of muscle in the late 30's without using drugs.        I'm waiting...


  Mike

I don't know about late thirties, but I quit smoking when I was 30 and knew I would put on weight so I started lifting weights. I put on 30 lbs. of muscle in 2 years! No steroids, only protein and creatine supplements! I went to the police academy when I was 25 and actually put on 10 lbs. in 6 weeks with no supplements. That was the first time I had really lifted weights seriously, and was hitting them hard the whole six weeks. We also ate very well there, so some of it might not have been muscle, but I was running the mile & a half a lot quicker when we got out so I don't think there was much fat there! Now mind you, the first time I had not done any weight lifting ever, and the second time I hadn't lifted for probably 3 years! As for Barry, I don't know what the circumstances were, but if he had been lifting regularly and then put on 30 lbs. in a short period then yeah, I'd have to agree with the 'roid theory!

[MEK-Dangerfield]

I don't know about late thirties, but I quit smoking when I was 30 and knew I would put on weight so I started lifting weights. I put on 30 lbs. of muscle in 2 years! No steroids, only protein and creatine supplements! I went to the police academy when I was 25 and actually put on 10 lbs. in 6 weeks with no supplements. That was the first time I had really lifted weights seriously, and was hitting them hard the whole six weeks. We also ate very well there, so some of it might not have been muscle, but I was running the mile & a half a lot quicker when we got out so I don't think there was much fat there! Now mind you, the first time I had not done any weight lifting ever, and the second time I hadn't lifted for probably 3 years! As for Barry, I don't know what the circumstances were, but if he had been lifting regularly and then put on 30 lbs. in a short period then yeah, I'd have to agree with the 'roid theory!

Thanks for the input.  As someone that has been past the late 30's for a few years now, I didn't see this as possible. I joined a gym around 40, but in 5+ years I have only put on 20LBS. of muscle. Not that I'm bragging here.  In my mind, I always thought I was running off whatever muscle I gained in the weight room, and that might be true.  In any event, I was trying to bulk up, NO supplements. I guess genes apply here too. I am definitely of the string-bean variety. 


  Mike

[Jacksboys]

No steroids, only protein and creatine supplements

I doubt those were around the 30's so you cannot count that.

I bet MEK is right about Babe's genes because he was a little overweight to begin with.  I know that some overweight people are very strong.

I think it also depends on how you were raised.  One of the guys I work with has been know to beat others with much larger arms in arm wrestling.  He grew up on a farm and worked hard all his life.

Also when you refer back to the 30's, there were not nearly as many games played each year.

If you look at the number of "At Bats", then you will relize that it took Bonds(9704) about 1300 more to pass Babe(8,399).

The same thing is true with Hank Aaron.

Babe Ruth is #1 in my books.

[chevyconvert]

It's kind of sad/funny...when you go to a giants game out here and Barry's up to bat,

guys in the stands hold up a sign with only an *ASTERICK* on it...says it all.

[whitesatinmopar]

Babe Ruth was not exactly a geometrical specimen, but hot dogs and beer can do wonders for the weight gain. He probably played in smaller baseball diamonds, the ball however was also not probably wound as tightly (like a lot of people), I doubt he ever swung a corked bat either. The pitchers of his day threw at you, not trying to trick you as in todays game. There is no comparrison to the game then and today.

Bonds is a controversy in all aspects, if he breaks the record, and probably will this year, some hot shot down the road will use perhaps use a titanium bat and hit a ball that is hard as a golf ball over the stadium fence a few more times, oh, and he has bionic arms............does he really deserve the record?

As far as Pete Rose is concerned? I have always been a Pirates fan but when he was playing I enjoyed watching him play, I even rooted for him, oh mr. charlie hustle.  But when truth comes out...............Rose is / was a selfish jerk, keep his sorry @ss out of Cooperstown.

[nivvy]

Well I guess anyway you look at it when Bonds breaks the record people will always say the steriods!
I know Pete Rose bet on his team...probably to lose.....but he still had all those hits and should be in the Hall of Fame for that alone!

Without naming any names look at some of the wifebeaters and junkies in the Hall of Fame.....

Babe Ruth still did it on Hotdogs and Beer!

[rallyechall]

I disagree with your Pete Rose statement. There is no rule against wife beating, and the rule for illegal drugs in MLB is lax at best. There is however a rule that states that if you bet on baseball, you will be ineligible for the hall of fame. look up Major League Rule 21(d). Every player is required to obtain the official rulebook to make sure they know what the rules are. He knew what he did was against baseball,s rules. He should suffer for his actions. 

[Pistol Gripper]

Hank Aaron is and probably will always hold the real record for home runs,  I doubt anyone will ever surpass that mark without a chemical advantage.

Pete Rose, to the best of my knowledge, never bet against the Reds.  That said, I think he deserves to be in the Hall.  You should get in because of you accomplishments playing the game, not what you do elsewhere.  

Major League Rule 21(d).  States:

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

Doesn't mention the Hall of Fame.


I have to agree, The Babe did it on hotdogs & beer, at a time when the ball wasn't as lively and the outfields were bigger.

For what it's worth, I quit watching baseball when the players went on strike, making it a business instead of a sport.

P.G.

[vinb]

Bonds: How can I word this without getting beat on? Yes, he probably did steroids and so did ALOT of other baseball players too. (steroids are used in all professional sports by many). But he was and is still one of baseball's best all time players even before the steroid thing. As far as Pete Rose, again what does betting have to do with him being a great baseball player over the years and yes, I think he should be in the baseball hall of fame. You have to look at the big picture not just what happen recently. OK start beating!

[Pistol Gripper]

vinb,

No beatings needed.  Performance enhancing drugs are not too different that running nitromethane in a stock class at the drags.  They find out you use it and POOF !!! record is gone.  Baseball should do the same.

P.G.

[nivvy]

I would be willing to bet that everyone here has gambled at some time or another....MLB makes too big of a deal about Pete Rose..... Bonds is still a piece of crap to me.... not to mention all record breakers using enhancements!

[vinb]

PG true , but your not cheating until you get caught and to prove for how long is another question. (Also, how did you know I was using nitro in my G/SA stock eliminator car?)  

[JS29]

Bonds: I won't comment.  Way too many issues / conditions.

Rose:  What he did as a player on the field is undeniable.  He has the most hits in MLB history (breaking Ty Cobb's record).  He played the game with the intensity that should be celebrated.  After running over and injuring Ray Fosse in the All-Star game his quote was "Nobody told me they changed it to girls' softball between third and home."  Those actions earned him his ticket to Cooperstown.  I point out Pete's accomplishments and hustle to my son when appropriate.  I also use Pete's downfall to teach my son right from wrong.

Unfortunately, Pete broke baseball's cardinal rule; No Gambling.  The price is banishment.  It must be this way.  If you don't think so, read, or watch "Eight Men Out" and you will better understand what happens if MLB allowed players to get involved with gamblers.  Fixed games, threats of injury or death will quickly erode public confidence that games are on the level, and that will be the end of MLB.

Personally I would be OK with Pete in the HoF, just mention on his plaque what he did to earn his place and why he was banned from baseball.  Here is what Pete did, here is what happened to him when he messed-up.  Cooperstown isn't the MLB HoF it is the Baseball HoF, and Pete's on-field performances justify enshrinement.  Unfortunately, his years of denials, lies, and slow to come clean have eroded public sympathy and support.  Now most don't give a crap.  It is all very sad.