Author Topic: 6.1 crate (Read 2380 times)

Nate10 · « **on:** July 26, 2007 - 09:26:35 PM »

OK with all this talk of upgrading to a 5.7 or 6.1 Hemi I got to searching the web for the best deal. Like alot of other guys I wanted the biggest bang for the buck and I found this:

http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/MPCrateEngines.asp

Like they always say, "if it sounds to good to be true it problaby is." But looking at this price and then getting a installation kit from PFC:

http://www.pfcenterprises.com/e__body_install_kit.htm

it seams pretty cheap. I mean I cant find a 5.7 for less then $7100. And here is a 6.1 new for $5750 and then $1140 to get it to fit. Is this to good to be true or am I missing something. I dont have an A/C car and dont realy desire it so what else do i need to make this work(a/c delete or not?). Any help from those who have done the conversion or know how to do it would be great. I have done research and read all the post on the CCC web site and they still dont anwser all my questions, along with inspiring new ones. I understand about the mounting issues and will use the alterkation kit to make it fit up frount. And will get the Keisler PerfectFit� 5-Speed Overdrive System. Have a 8 3/4 rear end with 489 center. Need new leafs but dont know if I should use SS or XHD, what do you think? Do I need torque boxes? (I know a I need subframe conectors)

Then that brings me to the intake, a fly-by-wire? I have seen XV intake but it says not for street use so who do I look to for a conversion. I just dont think I want the fly-by-wire(from what I have read)

By the way I curently run a 340 with TF727 tranny, all original. And I know what some of you are going to say, "Stick with the original," but I cant, I have nothing aginst it, I just want the Hemi. And when the '08 comes out I will get one for the wife and we will have matching 6.1's.

Any input is well recieved. Thanks in advance.

Nate10 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2007 - 09:29:54 PM »

A couple more things that came to mind:

What gas tank, since its FI? Found one but only good up to 450 hp

What radiator and fan should I use, I heard that electric ones will not pull the required air to cool the engine and transmission?

and any good sites for the computer controls and wiring harness?

71bigblock · « **Reply #2 on:** July 26, 2007 - 09:50:59 PM »

I am putting a 5.7 in my truck.

Street and Performance out of Arkansas has standalone wiring harnesses. Give them a call, ask for Mark, I think? Anyways, he's the guy that does the work there on this stuff.

www.hotrodlane.cc

Here is a thread that I started, I dont know if it will help:

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=35457.0

I bought a used 5.7, but the way it sounds, you want new. That gets to be very expensive, which I cant afford.

Hope this mumble jumble helps.

Nate10 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2007 - 09:00:21 AM »

Thanks for the reply, took a look at your project and looks cool. I thought about a used one and called around found a '04 5.7 from a 2500 with 24,000 miles on it (the only one in town) and the guy wanted $2000 for it. It was just the engine and wiring. so when I did some diging and found a 6.1 for a little more than $3500 more why not? and get a warrenty with it, i mean $3500 for a little peice of mind sounds good right. Have a couple of questions for you though:

What gas tank are you running for the pressure of Fuel Injection?
What radiator are you using, and with what fan(electric or motor drivin)?
And the harness, what do you meen stand alone?

Thanks again

MoparCar · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2007 - 09:26:59 AM »

I'm not to this point yet, but almost ready to buy the 6.1 (just waiting to see if Mopar releases the 392/6.4L long block) first.

Rembember the computer (ECU/ECM....) is the tough part of the combo. Those prices for the 6.1 do not come with the computer and will not run. You'll need to either get the factory computer and harness and reflash the computer for performance mods, security and a few other things. BG Performance seems to be the leader in this right now.

If not the factory computer, then FAST or AEM has systems out for the engine. Not totally plug and play though. You'll need to tune it on a laptop/dyno/road and dial it in. FAST makes a drive by cable throttle body kit and so does Street and Performance. Several companies make harnesses. If you run a carb with the XV manifold you'll still need to manage the spark with either a FAST or MSD type ignition controller that will tie into the crank sensor and coil on plug system.

The fuel and ignition is the biggy on this swap.

Rick's Hot Rod and Tanks makes a really nice stainless bolt in pump in tank with sump for about 800 or so. Really nice set up. Otherwise you will usually need to modify the tank with a sump kit, pump, supply and return lines for the EFI, etc.

XV is coming out or has out a radiator and fan for the combo, but several others do or can make one.

TTI or XV headers. TTI makes them specially for the AlterKation or no torsion bar fronts too. Both are expensive if you go this route. I hear you can use the stock manifolds with some work.

The crate 6.1s do not come with the front drive/accessories either so figure another grand for those parts too.

I'm definitely going this route with my in progress Challenger, but again this has just been research for me and I do not have the hands on with this combo so if I'm wrong on a few things......sorry. I'm speaking from the armchair only!

Wes

71bigblock · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2007 - 09:56:14 AM »

Im not sure on the gas tank just yet.

By "standalone" I mean that it is plug and play, IF you dont want to do any mods to the motor. I want to keep mine stock, 345 horse in a 3800 lb truck is plenty for me.

Supposedly, all you need is the stock ECM and plug it in. All the connections are there to plug into, and the unneccessary ones are eliminated. I guess you only have 4 wires to connect. Ignition, 12v source, charging system, and something else. Its supposed to be pretty easy. Just give them a call, that would be the best. I called once a while back, and the guy figured I was just a kid asking questions, and I dont think he realized I was serious on getting it. Oh well. I'll have to try again.

For a radiator I'm not sure yet either, probably a simple aluminum 2 row with dual electric fans. Something from Jegs or Summit I suppose.

moper · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2007 - 10:29:52 AM »

XV cannot legally market that intake for the street. But, I'f you're swapping in a late model engine in an older vehicle, you should have no problem runnig that intake. He can't tell you it's ok. But the reason it says not for street use is so some idiot doesnt go rip off all the polution controls from his SRT8 Charger and run a Holley. If your truck has to be smog tested, you should contact your local EPA to see if it would be legal to run. Think of it as equal to an exhaust company telling you it was ok to rip off a catalytic convertor and run thier X pipe...

Nate10 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2007 - 10:50:19 AM »

OK I just got off the phone with JR the owner of the Bouchillon Performance Engineering
shop. He said he his getting these engines at cost and Chysler is pissed off and next month when they stop producing the '07 model they will not sell the factory engines to dealers at cost any more. Chysler feels the shops that are selling the engines at the low price are de-valuing the Hemi engines. So Next year they will start at $8000 for the 5.7 and go up from there.

His shop also has a cpu that will work ( reflashed or flashed or something)and a custom wiring kit for $2100 so that brings the value back to $7200 for the complete kit - the A/C delete front acc. The wiring kit is custom bulit not a factory wiring harness cut up, he says it hides within the engine not just layed up under the dress up kit thing.

go-fish · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2007 - 03:46:35 PM »

I have been thinking about something alot lately and maybe this thread is the right place to post it. Not trying to jack the thread but was reluctant to post a new one. Disregard if you feel it goes in another direction than this topic.
If I were to buy a base model V6 Dodge could I buy a 6.1 and plop it in with just a CPU, exhaust manifolds, and bigger radiator?
You could sell the sixer to recoupe some funds too.

Carlwalski · « **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2007 - 04:22:49 PM »

I'll be running the stock gas tank with a Aeromotor (I think) fuel pump mounted (professionally) to the frame rail. Tim @ FHO does it all the time and recommends it especially as he'll make sure the pump I have meets the engines fuel needs (540ci). XV are making a stock looking tank with EFI pump mounted inside but that will be some ways off yet. Last I heard there was no set date and that was 4 weeks ago. However, I'm not sure what their pumps flow like and what engines they can feed.

As far as engines, if you can, go BIG. The 6.1 Hemi is much more engine than the Taxi like 5.7L (No offense to any 5.7L owner). I was lucky enough to have driven both and the only reason I'd go for a 5.7L is if that's all I could afford, if you can go 6.1L, do it, you'd be silly not to better response and obviously more power. Still prefer the original Hemi engines but that's just me. My useless

worth.

71bigblock · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2007 - 05:41:48 PM »

I talked to Mark at S&P yesterday. I lied.

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. I called and told him what I wanted to do, put a 5 speed manual behind it.

"Oh thats easy" he said.

But after I got to asking some questions, he said I dont have the right computer. He said I need to get it reprogrammed. I was like, ok, you guys do that? And he said yes, but I need a manual tranny computer. I was like what the heck, they didnt make a manual behind the 5.7. He said I have to get it straight from Mopar, or S&P has them, too. So now the computer I bought is worthless to me, I need to turn around and sell it.

So, its not as easy as they want you to think. Sorry for the rambling, just thought I'd share.

Carlwalski · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2007 - 09:15:31 AM »

Don't forget keisler now make 6-speed kits for the new platforms, Chargers/300Cs/Challengers etc.

GreenFish · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2007 - 12:15:38 AM »

I own a 06 charger, these guys are real big on the 5.7/6.1 stuff.. good customer service and a great rep.

http://www.thehemishop.com/

MoparCar · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2007 - 08:42:52 AM »

I ordered my 6.1 Hemi Crate two days ago

at The Mopar SuperCenter (Rick Hendrick Chrysler Jeep). $5,200 + freight! It'll be a while till I get it in the car and running because my Chally project is a long road, but at least it will be in the garage and then I can decide which EFI, etc. I'm going with.

By the way, Hendrick also said they are in short supply (I've talked to two other dealers with the same response) and no longer available after the few they have in stock are gone. The guy I talked to when ordering said they ordered ten more and Chrysler cancelled and denied their latest purchase order for the next ten engines. I figure you might be able to buy them next year, but you'll pay the core charge like a couple of years ago when I first checked. Supposedly they are for replacement only---so that's where the core charge comes in. (IMO-I'm not an expert, not a factory guy......maybe the 392 will come down in $, who knows, but at $5,200 I'll take one!)

GreenFish · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2007 - 05:58:46 PM »

Mopar super center is a great place. I have bought from them in the past. Tip top customer service. Wish they were local.

Author Topic: 6.1 crate (Read 2380 times)

Nate10

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71bigblock

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MoparCar

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moper

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71bigblock

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