Smoking ban

Author Topic: Smoking ban  (Read 3217 times)

Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2007 - 04:05:41 PM »
OK,

 can anyone name 3 people who have died from second hand smoke?  I'm not taking sides on this one, just want to see the facts.

P.G.

I don't think you could prove conclusively that any individual's death was the result of smoke, first- or second-hand.  The question I would ask is "Can you show that people who do not smoke, but  who are regularly subjected to cigarette smoke, have a significantly higher incidence of illnesses which are otherwise considered to be smoking-related?"



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Offline RDF

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2007 - 04:20:30 PM »
OK,

I've said my peace about the owner's right to choose whether he wants to allow smoking in his establishment.  Now let's take this a bit farther.  Second hand smoke is more harmful than "regular" smoke ?  I won't argue that, just ask a simple question, can anyone name 3 people who have died from second hand smoke?  I'm not taking sides on this one, just want to see the facts.

P.G.

Although not all forms of lung cancer are linked to smoking or 2nd hand smoke, I'd be willing to bet that in most of those cases (those who get lung cancer and haven't smoked a day in their lives) there's a link somehow.....but it's very hard to determine that.
Bob

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Offline burnt orange

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2007 - 04:35:04 PM »
Here are the regulations from a small city which is a suburb of Vancouver BC.  It shows the direction the whole province is taking.

No person shall smoke:
- in any commercial establishment
- in any common public area (inside or outside)
- in any health care facility
- in any liquor outlet
- in any mall
- in any personal service establishment
- in any place of employment
- in any place of public assembly
- in any public transportation except as otherwise permitted in this Bylaw
- in any reception area
- in any restaurant
- in any guest rooms contained within a hotel, motel, lodge or bed & breakfast
establishment designated as non-smoking by the owner and/or proprietor


Read the writing on the wall people.  Smoking is a bad habit, a b*tch to kick and is being regulated and taxed to the limit.  Time to quit I guess. >:(
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Offline MOPAR FANATIC

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2007 - 04:36:04 PM »
Fanatic,

As a non-smoker, I don't want to smell smoke while I'm eating or while I'm having a drink at a bar.  BUT, it's not right for me to tell you or the owner of the place of business if patrons can smoke.  If the owner wants a non-smoking establishment, he faces losing the smoker's business or non-smoker's if he goes smoking.  It's his call because it's his business.  If I feel strongly enough about it, I'll go where I feel most comfortable. 

The gov't needs to butt out, economics will take care of it. :villagers:

P.G.
I Get where your comming from p.g. but bars in st paul had that option of putting up a wall between resturant/bar with sealed doors and many of them did this with a big chunk of money from the busines owner,now they took that away from them too after theey spent many many thousands of dollars remodeling their establishment so they could cater to smokers and non-smokers.now their out all that money plus losing one or the other for business.this just doesn't make sense.you think once they remodeled before law took effect they would get to keep it that way.   :clueless:  :clueless: BIG GOV'T.......  :swear:  :swear:  :pullinghair:  :banghead:
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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2007 - 05:57:29 PM »
I Get where your comming from p.g. but bars in st paul had that option of putting up a wall between resturant/bar with sealed doors and many of them did this with a big chunk of money from the busines owner,now they took that away from them too after theey spent many many thousands of dollars remodeling their establishment so they could cater to smokers and non-smokers.now their out all that money plus losing one or the other for business.this just doesn't make sense.you think once they remodeled before law took effect they would get to keep it that way.   :clueless:  :clueless: BIG GOV'T.......  :swear:  :swear:  :pullinghair:  :banghead:

Its simple, when government has to modify something to conform to a new law they are using our money to do it. They dont give a rats @ss if it is going to cost a business man money, they just make the rules. Government has no checks and balances, dont you wish you could vote yourself a big fat raise like they do? They dont care about healthcare and retirement, they get all that after just one term in office and they still get to keep their medicaire and social security. Government is nothing more than our personal money shredder.
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Offline torredcuda

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2007 - 06:32:36 PM »
OK,

I've said my peace about the owner's right to choose whether he wants to allow smoking in his establishment.  Now let's take this a bit farther.  Second hand smoke is more harmful than "regular" smoke ?  I won't argue that, just ask a simple question, can anyone name 3 people who have died from second hand smoke?  I'm not taking sides on this one, just want to see the facts.

P.G.
I know many more than 3 poeple who have had lung problems or cancer and who never smoked a cigarette in thier life but had spouses who did-maybe coincidence,maybe not.
Bars and restaurants have had the option to go smokefree for a long time and yet very,very few do.Why,b/c they will lose $ to other places that allow smoking.I agree a good compromise would be to have areas that are sealed off completely where smokers are allowed to suffocate themselves on cigarette smoke if they choose.  :naughty:
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007 - 06:37:02 PM by torredcuda »
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Offline Pistol Gripper

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2007 - 07:23:11 PM »
ChallengerHK,

It's easy to name dozens, if not thousands of people who died as a result of smoking.  Nat King Cole, Clark Gable, Humphrey Bogart, Steve McQueen are easy ones.  As for second hand smoke, not so easy, no one has named one as of yet.

P.G.
 
 
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Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2007 - 07:53:49 PM »
Hey, PG.  I understand your point, and while I'm not a smoker and I think it's a disugusting habit, I don't know how you could ever proove that smoking killed any given individual.  At best, evidence could strongly suggest it, but for all we know Nat King Cole might have grown up across the street from an asbestos factory.  It's not like a heart attack, where you can point to a specific cause at a specific time.  Smoking slowly poisons people over decades, and there are just too many things in the intervening decades that can be a hindrance or a help.


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Offline Topcat

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2007 - 08:00:31 PM »
The city of Belmont near me is so far that I know of the strictest anti smoking ban in the nation. You aren't even allowed to smoke in your apartment or your car in city limits.

http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_319175227.html

Europe is trying to begin an ant smoking ban over there now. People there I talked with said it's coming soon.

I smoke too but I always try to keep my distance when I do.
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline mopar_guy

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2007 - 08:35:13 PM »





The city of Belmont near me is so far that I know of the strictest anti smoking ban in the nation. You aren't even allowed to smoke in your apartment or your car in city limits.

:faint:  :faint:  :faint:  :faint:   :faint:   :faint:  :faint:  :faint:
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007 - 08:39:06 PM by mopar_guy »

Offline Topcat

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2007 - 08:39:12 PM »
I forgot to menton. It just passed last week and will be enforced.
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline willhaven

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2007 - 09:28:12 PM »
Land of the free, unless your actions cause harm to others.

They've done studies on non-smokers who work at bars in NYC and Ireland after smoking was banned. After a short time, they end up healthier and have lower levels of a known carcinogen found in cigarette smoke. Some would say "let them find another job, then." But, if you look at the history of workplace safety in the US, it's almost ALWAYS legislation that leads to safety standards, minimum wage standards, environmental safety standards, etc etc.

It's less about the patrons eating there on a night where someone next to them lights up, it's about the people who don't have much choice in the matter working in an environment that is not good for their health.

My father grew up in the 60s and did lots of drugs (still smokes weed) and smoked cigarettes until I was in my early teens. He hid his smoking habits from be the best he could until I was maybe 19 or so, though I had found out beforehand that he was a smoker. He knew "do as I say, not as I do" isn't the best example, so he took it upon himself to sit cooped up in his bathroom with a window open on the toilet to smoke his cigarettes. It helped keep me away from smoking and drugs (I've never done anything, ever) and I'm glad he did it.

Offline MOPAR FANATIC

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2007 - 08:14:48 AM »

It's happening everywhere. NZ has been smoke free in work places, pubs, hotels anywhere public except in the street for a couple of years now. England, Aussie and the majority of America is (I think). At first (as a smoker) I thought it was crap, nothing like drinking plss and having a smoke at the bar, now I have to wander outside with NO BEER in hand!?! :( (That's the worst part) :lol: But, I'm used to it now and I think it's a good idea.

Why should others stand in a haze of smoke? Being PC, "yes, they chose to go into the bar" but in the real world, where else can they go to enjoy a night on the booze? BUT, I would also like to see set smokers bars, perhaps a chain "TSB - The Smokers Bar" etc spread throughout the cities. If non-smokers have bars, why not build one for smokers? That way people know what bar is what. If a non smoker complains about smoking in a "Smokers Bar" then GTFO!  ;) Keep everyone happy.


 :2cents: :smokin:
  :iagree: carl you hit it right on the nose,having a smokers bar.that would solve the problems both ways,could'nt agree more.  :2thumbs:
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Offline torredcuda

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2007 - 09:11:15 AM »
Land of the free, unless your actions cause harm to others.

They've done studies on non-smokers who work at bars in NYC and Ireland after smoking was banned. After a short time, they end up healthier and have lower levels of a known carcinogen found in cigarette smoke. Some would say "let them find another job, then." But, if you look at the history of workplace safety in the US, it's almost ALWAYS legislation that leads to safety standards, minimum wage standards, environmental safety standards, etc etc.

It's less about the patrons eating there on a night where someone next to them lights up, it's about the people who don't have much choice in the matter working in an environment that is not good for their health.



 :iagree:  My wife is a former smoker that works in a restaurant and she now has to breath other peoples smoke or quit her good paying job.
Jeff
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Offline rallyechall

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Re: Smoking ban
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2007 - 01:23:22 PM »
To bring you up to speed, here in New York, we had a couple bars that were smoke free before our law was passed, and they did and are doing just fine. The bars that allowed smoking until the law went into effect are still doing fine and new bars have opened after. Do not say these bars will lose money. That is poor speculation to think there will be money lost. The smokers will still go to bars and they will go outside to smoke, even when it is -10 degrees out, I have witnessed this. Their intent when going to the bar is to drink not smoke. We also have some bars that are cigar bars, and they do a fine business also. If anyone loses money it isn't due to the smoking ban, it is due to a poor business plan.