Author Topic: Leaded Gas or Unleaded  (Read 8708 times)

Offline hooD

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Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« on: September 29, 2007 - 11:03:11 PM »
My 340 engine from the factory required leaded gasoline.  I add lead at every fill up.  I always keep a couple bottles of lead in the trunk with a funnel.  What do you use for lead and what other additives do you add to the gas?  Or have you changed your heads/valves and use unleaded gasoline?
-Larry
member since AUG 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvrWiLgDm7Y

southeastern michigan usa
             
 
            
1973 'CUDA 340
 
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37,117 miles
  
:grinyes: *click my E-Body* :grinyes:




Offline Super Blue 72

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2007 - 12:39:56 AM »
I have a stock '72 340 in my car.  Am I supposed to use lead additive?  I thought I could just use regular unlead gas?  Isn't your car a '73?  Shouldn't it be able to run unleaded?  :clueless:  I dunno...
1972 Dodge Challenger Rallye 340, AT, Code TB3=Super Blue, SBD=8/17/1971.  Yes, a Rallye without the fender louvers from the factory because of the body side molding option.

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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2007 - 12:50:21 AM »
My first car was a 75 Chrysler Cordoba and after I railed on it until the original dual exhaust 400 died I found a set of 906 heads on it upon teardown and yes they were original to the car. In 72 and 73 very few cars were outfitted with hardened exhaust seats for unleaded fuel. If you do not put many miles on your car running unleaded will not hurt it that much or so I have been told. If you run your car plenty of miles a year then your heads will suffer recession where the valves literally pound the valve seats down. The best bet if you plan on doing a rebuild is to either update the heads or have hard seats installed.
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Offline hooD

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2007 - 01:35:05 AM »
I have a stock '72 340 in my car.  Am I supposed to use lead additive?  I thought I could just use regular unlead gas?  Isn't your car a '73?  Shouldn't it be able to run unleaded?  :clueless:  I dunno...
Leaded gas only for my 73.  The way i understand it is that lead acts as a lubricant for the valves, without the lead, you risk damage as Super Blue 72 said above. 

That is another reason why you were not able to use leaded gas in a car with catalytic converters.  The lead would clog up the cats.  Leaded gas pump nozzles at gas stations were larger in diameter and would not fit into the filler hole of an unleaded made car.  But lead at the pump is a thing of the past. 

In a nutshell, lead will damage an unleaded newer car and unleaded gas will damage an older leaded made engine.  I'm sure more will chime in with more information.  Just curious on what others are doing or not doing.   
-Larry
member since AUG 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvrWiLgDm7Y

southeastern michigan usa
             
 
            
1973 'CUDA 340
 
original owner
37,117 miles
  
:grinyes: *click my E-Body* :grinyes:

Offline Moparal

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2007 - 03:44:38 AM »
Whenever I freshen up one of the engines I am building for any of my cars, I either install hardend exhaust seats or enlarge the exhaust valve and cut the seat .  You can go 20k miles or so before you have any problems with valve seats useing unleaded fuel. And putting over 20k on your ebody every year in todays world is something rarely done by anybody. I've been building and driving mopar hp engines since the 70's and have only worn out a couple of sets of heads. And with bigger lift cams now adays, you'll repair the guides before the seats as it stands.

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2007 - 06:59:01 AM »
Leaded gas only for my 73.  The way i understand it is that lead acts as a lubricant for the valves, without the lead, you risk damage as Super Blue 72 said above. 

That is another reason why you were not able to use leaded gas in a car with catalytic converters.  The lead would clog up the cats.  Leaded gas pump nozzles at gas stations were larger in diameter and would not fit into the filler hole of an unleaded made car.  But lead at the pump is a thing of the past. 

In a nutshell, lead will damage an unleaded newer car and unleaded gas will damage an older leaded made engine.  I'm sure more will chime in with more information.  Just curious on what others are doing or not doing.   


The all vehicles use unleaded fuel thing didn't kick in until 1974. Your thinking here is correct. This is the lead substitute/octane booster I use...

http://www.kemcooil.com/products.php?cId=4



  Mike


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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2007 - 10:09:37 AM »
The all vehicles use unleaded fuel thing didn't kick in until 1974. Your thinking here is correct. This is the lead substitute/octane booster I use...

http://www.kemcooil.com/products.php?cId=4



  Mike




That is the odd thing. My 75 Cordoba did not have the sticker on the speedo stating "unleaded only". Must have slipped through somehow and I bought it untouched from the original owner. I was suprised to see the 906 heads as they were supposed to have been phased out long before 1974 as far as I know.
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Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2007 - 12:15:00 PM »
That is the odd thing. My 75 Cordoba did not have the sticker on the speedo stating "unleaded only". Must have slipped through somehow and I bought it untouched from the original owner. I was suprised to see the 906 heads as they were supposed to have been phased out long before 1974 as far as I know.

You got me there.  :screwy: Did the filler neck for the gas tank have the larger opening for the leaded gas nozzle?


  Mike
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007 - 12:40:51 PM by MEK-Dangerfield »

Mike

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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2007 - 12:40:45 PM »
Yup. My dad bought the car for $200 in 1985 for me and I drove it for about 3 years. I could still buy leaded gas for at least a year or so after I started driving it. I sure wish I had that bad boy back again, it was a runner with a super strong 3.21 sure grip 9.25 rear. Me and a buddy worked at a service station and one day when it was on the lift we tried to get the sure grip to break over by each taking a tire and holding/turning it. It would not budge. power windows and a sunroof were the only options it lacked.
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline duodec

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2007 - 01:45:29 AM »
I had a '73 Dart Swinger slant six for a while; according to the owner's manual it was safe to use unleaded.

You could check the owners manual for your year and see if unleaded use is mentioned.


Offline ted

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2007 - 12:30:19 PM »
73 Was the first year the heads were designed for unleaded.
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Offline Black340

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2007 - 05:43:09 PM »
llowing the advise of duodec  :2thumbs:  and cheking my 73 owner's manual I find the following under;

 "Gas Station Cheklist"  "Fuel Usage" page 8

" Chrysler Corporation supports and reduce vehicle emissions and will continue to design its engines towards this end.

AS A RESULT OUR 1973 PASSENGER CAR ENGINES ARE DESIGNED TO OPERATE ON EITHER LEADED OR UNLEADED GASOLINES HAVING A MINIMUN OCTANE RATING OF 91 ( RESECH METHOD ) OR AN ANTI-KNOCK INDEX WITH A MINIMUN NUMERICAL VALUE OF (GASOLINE CLASSIFICATION METHOD)...."

Offline gkring

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2007 - 06:24:23 PM »
Personally I wouldn't worry about it, use unleaded and no additive. If you are really worried it is cheaper to pull the heads and put new seats in to be compatible with unleaded gas than it is to add a bottle of lead substitute every fillup. Also a good excuse to upgrade to some modern heads.
Greg
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1970 Barracuda driver

Offline hooD

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2007 - 01:36:35 AM »
llowing the advise of duodec  :2thumbs:  and cheking my 73 owner's manual I find the following under;

 "Gas Station Cheklist"  "Fuel Usage" page 8

" Chrysler Corporation supports and reduce vehicle emissions and will continue to design its engines towards this end.

AS A RESULT OUR 1973 PASSENGER CAR ENGINES ARE DESIGNED TO OPERATE ON EITHER LEADED OR UNLEADED GASOLINES HAVING A MINIMUN OCTANE RATING OF 91 ( RESECH METHOD ) OR AN ANTI-KNOCK INDEX WITH A MINIMUN NUMERICAL VALUE OF (GASOLINE CLASSIFICATION METHOD)...."
I looked on page 8 of my owners manual, and there it was, just as you stated.  Either leaded or unleaded gasoline.  Myth busted!  :smokin:
-Larry
member since AUG 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvrWiLgDm7Y

southeastern michigan usa
             
 
            
1973 'CUDA 340
 
original owner
37,117 miles
  
:grinyes: *click my E-Body* :grinyes:

Offline moper

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Re: Leaded Gas or Unleaded
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2007 - 12:09:40 PM »
It's a little misleading. If i put together everything I've found to be true: heads on some big blocks in 1971 began to come with "flame hardened" exh seats. (casting number's 346) They were first tries, and they were moderately sucessful. I have seen them crack across the seats. I dont see 346s show up much after 1971. Small blocks start having flame hardened seats in '72 on the J heads with smaller exh valves. Those engines also got mild emmissions stuff, like temp controlled spark advance, and evaporative charcoal cans. Big blocks got 452 heads primarilly, but 906s and 902s were also used a lot. '73 is the first years with EGR valves from what I can tell. Not on every vehicle, but they were working on it. It was also as leaded fuels were being cursed. The only change after that is in 1976, when catalytic convertors start apperaing on lighter duty cars. Some heavy W/D350s didnt have cats until 1980. There is a huge difference between "induction" of "flame hardened" seats, and unleaded seat inserts. Hardened factory type seats will last much better, but new seats will permanently solve the problems. If performance on unleaded fuel is you goal, new seats are teh only way to go. A valve job can remove much of the iron that was flame hardened. And as soon as the seat begins to erode, you begin to lose perfomance. Whether you feel it or not, it does happen. But, if a car is not oprating steady state over 2K rpm, or towing, and the spring pressures aren't too bad, the std seats will last for tens of thousands of miles with no really noticable loss.