Member with Ford EFI?

[Jacksboys]

I remember there is a member who used Ford EFI on his motor.  Does anyone remember who that is?  I had a couple questions for a possible future project.

[A110235]

EFI-Cuda is his name and here is the thread:     http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=7247.0
I am kind of interested in the same setup too.

Kyle

[Jacksboys]

Thanks Kyle   

[Grundy]

I'm still working on my parts list for the same swap. I've still got to purchase the intake elbow like he had. (spyder efi, i believe) BUT.. if you're running a small block, JEGS has the intake manifold selling separately now from their full efi kit. It's like $280 vs Summit's $360 (or so). Part # 28155.

[Jacksboys]

I'm still working on my parts list for the same swap. I've still got to purchase the intake elbow like he had. (spyder efi, i believe) BUT.. if you're running a small block, JEGS has the intake manifold selling separately now from their full efi kit. It's like $280 vs Summit's $360 (or so). Part # 28155.

Thanks for the info.  What is the price range you are looking at with it completed?

[Grundy]

Well i bought the whole top half of a mustang (intake manifold, fuel rails, fuel pump, computer, sensors, injectors, everything) for 580 bucks. I'm hoping to sell the ford intake manifold to offset some cost. But even with that, the new edelbrock manifold, the intake elbow, new fuel rails, and some random ignition parts, it's looking like 1200 bucks. It's still about 1500 less than the edelbrock system.

To me it's worth it for the cold start ease, the drivability, and for me* it's fun to figure this out.



(*crazy)

[Jacksboys]

Well i bought the whole top half of a mustang (intake manifold, fuel rails, fuel pump, computer, sensors, injectors, everything) for 580 bucks. I'm hoping to sell the ford intake manifold to offset some cost. But even with that, the new edelbrock manifold, the intake elbow, new fuel rails, and some random ignition parts, it's looking like 1200 bucks. It's still about 1500 less than the edelbrock system.

To me it's worth it for the cold start ease, the drivability, and for me* it's fun to figure this out.



(*crazy)

Thanks for the info.
I agree with you on the benefits, plus I am willing to do some extra work to save $1500.  It would also be sweet to lift the hood and have everyone asking how I did it.   

[Jacksboys]

Also is that intake for the LA or Magnum blocks?

[Grundy]

It's specifically for the LA blocks. Up until now you had to have one machined. If all goes well, this is going to be my winter project. For the mustang stuff, keep an eye on ebay and craigs list..

[ntstlgl1970]

You can get mustang stuff dirt cheap since those guys are changing stuff all the time. I would hit up pick and pull if there is one near you, the 5.0's aren't quite as popular as they used to be so it's easier to find stuff there. Also the mid/late 80's lincoln LSC's had the mustang motor (roller cam and all, will say HO on the intake bolt cover) as well. The A9L and A9P are the best processors to use. The main obstacle would be the intake manifold and setting up the distributor for the TFI module and pickup. Make sure that whatever 5.0L you harvest the parts from (related to the computer) is a mass air sensor vehicle as there is little to no aftermarket support for MAP (speed density) equipped vehicles/processors. I did the same type FI swap on my 66 mustang. BTW, EFI cuda never responded to any of my messages, not sure he comes on here anymore - the thread posted is 2 years old.

to read up some on the ford EEC system you can check
eec-tuner.com
tweecer.com
http://www.bgsoflex.com/auto.html (more calculation programs than actual eec info)

[Grundy]

I'm still working on the ignition portion of this craziness. I'm determined to do it without machining the distributor. I think i've almost got it figured out. Instead of confusing everyone, when i'm done, i'll post my findings.

[ntstlgl1970]

I'm still working on the ignition portion of this craziness. I'm determined to do it without machining the distributor. I think i've almost got it figured out. Instead of confusing everyone, when i'm done, i'll post my findings.

if there is a specific hurdle you are working on, I would be glad to try and help out. There is more than one style of TFI module setup. They made a remote mount style that might make it easier to adapt. It was used on the later modle ford vans and F series trucks with the 460 if I remember right.

[Grundy]

OK, let me share with you what my theory is.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/ 

In the ignition section, it talks about the hall effect, TFI and HEI. From what i understand, the TFI is a digital system, sending digital info to the ford computer. Now, I believe the chrysler distributor is a hall effect system (as is ford). I want to convert the signal from the chrysler distributor into the digital format that the ford computer will understand. 

This is what i'm trying to research. I don't know what the outputs are and if we can get all the functions to work like the ford dist.

[Grundy]

OR

Get the guts of a ford distributor into a chrysler one. With all bolt on type stuff.

A cap-adapt setup from MSD to make it a big cap, stator, pickup, rotor - then you're just talking about mounting everything physically. BUt again, I want to be able to put it together with no major modifications.

I'm doing this for me, but i'm also trying to make this do-able for everyone else interested.

[ntstlgl1970]

OR

Get the guts of a ford distributor into a chrysler one. With all bolt on type stuff.

This is what I was going to do. The standard chrysler magnetic distributor generates a VR (sine wave) signal while the ford hall effect is a digital (square wave) signal. I'm sure there is a way to rectify the VR into a digital signal, but I think it would be easier to swap the guts out of the ford setup. The shutter wheel on the 5.0L has one tooth that is a different size to id cylinder #1. The shutter wheel just bolts to the top of the flange on the ford distributor shaft. You would have to make a flange that fits the stock chrysler shaft and lock out the advance mechanism. Or you could machine the stock chrysler shaft to accept the ford flange. Originally I was thinking you could use parts from a late model (magnum engine) EFI distributor (already has a hall effect sensor in it, no advance mechanism) and then adapt the location of the sensor to coincide with the diameter of the ford trigger wheel. The sensor doesn't care what type of trigger wheel it is working with. I have some of these parts still at home, I'll see if I can post some pictures to show what I am talking about....

If you can use the large distributor cap, that would be cool if you have the room but I am all about the low buck approach. The MSD stuff is magnetic ford/chrysler based and generates a VR signal which won't work. You can do what you want with some standard parts (pretty sure the ford small base -point style- to large cap adapter also fits the chrysler standard distributor to use the larger ford style cap. The rotor phasing will probably be off, but since you are locating the hall switch yourself, that is easily corrected. And you can get spare parts at any auto parts store as opposed to MSD or Mallory (ask me about mallory unilite modules).

Since you are already looking at the megamanual, you might end up at the same decision I did, which was to go with the megasquirt. Its simpler to tune and setup than a ford system , can use a VR or Hall Switch or even points to trigger it and is cheaper overall and more adjustable then the ford system will ever be.

The first image shows the "closed bowl" style TFI distributor, the second shows the ford cap adapter used on early 80's V8's that are not equipped with EEC-III. The third picture shows the magnum distributor with the hall switch.