I know I'm not among alot of fans here

[Bullitt-]

NZ..not disasgreeing with most of what you say ...but...what does driving a stick shift & F1 have to do with each other???

[Carlwalski]

Nothing, together on a page like that (out of context). I was saying that Toyota in the series opens up many new doors for American drivers, eg: F1. As for manuals, was in reference to Europe having the best drivers in the world, Ayrton Senna, Lewis Hamilton, Colin McCrae, Sebastian Lobe, Nigel Mansell, Schumacher, Kimmi Raikkonen, the list is endless.

[Bullitt-]

Well it did open a door, Red Bull took Scott Speed to F1 & he failed...now back in NASCAR.. I don't see how Toyota in NASCAR can bring our talent level up to compete with European drivers...Your straight shift point may be on the mark only in that the series that the European drivers come from do have paddle shifters but I would guess more to the point that they run A LOT more road courses vs the US.

[bb71challenger]

Whether you accept it or not it's 100% factual. It was only a "joke" the 7 year old driving thing mate like I would say "Ray Charles could paint better" etc. Are you kidding me? It makes a HUGE difference. With 95% (or close to it, in the 90s anyhow) of a country driving autos it leaves a little pocket of manual drivers, correct? So, with the small amount you have only a few make it to become professional drivers. Where as Europe have the total opposite, 95% stick drivers is the perfect breeding ground for world class quality wheel men.

Not saying you guys don't have world class drivers (you do) just very few of them and not many participate in world class events outside of the US. Which in turn brings us back to the topic at hand, having an outside brand in the series isn't all bad. Friendships start, suit wearers talk and who knows, before long a couple of US drivers may go overseas and drive for Toyota in F1 or likewise, that was my point.

My point is, if U.S. drivers were given time in the cockpit of some of these factory backed cars and the unlikely chance to drive for the likes of Ferrari, Audi, Mercedes, etc. then there would be some Americans in your elite driver list, simple fact there.

[Carlwalski]

That's my point, they're not. Fact: Everything is nice in hindsight. Doesn't matter what they're driving, Ferrari, Mercedes, Vipers, Mustangs or Corvettes, European drivers as a whole are better drivers.

[bb71challenger]

That's my point, they're not. Fact: Everything is nice in hindsight. Doesn't matter what they're driving, Ferrari, Mercedes, Vipers, Mustangs or Corvettes, European drivers as a whole are better drivers.

OK. As a whole they are better drivers. As a whole Americans have more money, are more attractive, have a better quality of life, in hindsight they can keep their superior driving skills 

[Carlwalski]

Typical response......   "We're # 1" What ever you want to hear I guess.
All depends who you ask. I'd prefer a hot Russian lady myself.

[Bullitt-]

Thought we were discussing Nascar & the like?!!?  Russian women?  Ok by me, lotta Russian women here in the US........I wonder why?.. 

[Carlwalski]

I'll say, we were, don't talk to me about it, see bb71, he brought up the "way of life", "woman", & "money" comments. My comments are legit and on topic; Toyota isn't bad for Nascar as it offers US drivers a chance to get some feet in the door to race against the best overseas. Sheesh, NZ ain't no European country and I am happy to put my countries pride to the side and admit they are better drivers, no biggie.  

[Bullitt-]

Toyota may open doors for drivers but 1st the drivers have to measure up..that's my point...What it is good for is more money for the teams to develop more competitive machinery & attract better drivers. You see who is jumping to Nascar now???  1st there was Montoya, today Villeneuve started at Talladega, & next year Franchitti is on board....all has beens by F1 standards but who knows where this will lead.

[bb71challenger]

Typical response......   "We're # 1" What ever you want to hear I guess.
All depends who you ask. I'd prefer a hot Russian lady myself.

LOL I thought that might get a response from ya. See how some statements whether they are supported with facts or not kind of hit below the belt? It is not about being politically correct either, some things have no place. The discussion in the beginning was about Nascar, not F1 or superior European drivers, your brought that up. I took your detour and made another one is all. I am done wandering the world in this thread. BTW, we are #1 

[Carlwalski]

Toyota isn't bad for Nascar as it offers US drivers a chance to get some feet in the door to race against the best overseas meaning F1 and rally.

As I said, mine was on topic (see above). Yup, "#1" so are 194 other countries. Every person believes their country is "#1". Passion & pride. Just, some don't force it down your throat. We let our country do the talking. As for your below the belt comment? WTF? Nothing I said was below the belt. I never said "America sucks" if it did, would I own all American cars & hang out here? You took it the wrong way, there was nothing in it.

[Ghost]

That's my point, they're not. Fact: Everything is nice in hindsight. Doesn't matter what they're driving, Ferrari, Mercedes, Vipers, Mustangs or Corvettes, European drivers as a whole are better drivers.

That's a little arrogant, don't you think?

What you're saying is basically the same as saying "All white people are better, as a whole".

[Bullitt-]

Splain all of the great South American Champions...

[340kiwi]

Typical response......   "We're # 1" What ever you want to hear I guess.
All depends who you ask. I'd prefer a hot Russian lady myself.

Have to agree with you Carl as my wife IS a hot Russian Lady. as for the we're #1 thing.... ever noticed how many sports America is 'World Champion' or the best at are sports no other countries in the world bother to play.....