Intake Shootout

Author Topic: Intake Shootout  (Read 8671 times)

sleepychallenger

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2007 - 04:40:28 PM »
wow, i guess that i am going with the holly, which M1 was it that they used?




Offline toomanyprojects

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2007 - 11:51:57 PM »
hey stroker,
where did you get those numbers? i have that issue and the numbers are very different-
what month is it?
i can scan the article and post it-the numbers i have are as follows-
intake lobes 6581
exhaust lobes 6583-
239/247° of duration@ .50° tappet lift, and 0.573/0.597-w/ comp. 1:6 roller rockers, diamond pistons 0.060 over bore w/10.3:1 compression-
this is kinda weird-
my issue has dale jr. on the cover-and it has the top ten hot rods of 2007-and the hot rod of the year was the 69 barracuda-Blowfish-
where do you live?
are the issues/articles different per location?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007 - 12:16:30 AM by toomanyprojects »

Offline EVIL72

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2007 - 12:22:23 AM »
 I know there are two parts to the story, I haven't seen the next issue out yet. I thought they also tested a single 4 barrel tunnel ram in the first issue that didn't do so good, but found a 2x4 top for the tunnel ram for the second issue.
ROB
1972 Dodge Challenger 340ci
1970 Pro Street Duster (Under Construction)

nivvy

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2007 - 05:14:50 PM »
dale junior and his camaro was the previous issue...

intake shootout is january 08

Offline Jacksboys

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2007 - 09:49:58 PM »
FYI: They also did an intake shootout in the December issue.   :2thumbs:
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Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2007 - 02:31:13 PM »
I don't think peak HP is all that interesting unless you're a drag racer.

Avg HP and Tq under the curve is what I look at.  Who needs a peaky torque curve?
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Offline EVIL72

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2007 - 09:40:42 PM »
 Well I finally got ahold of the January issue that had part 2 of the 383 intake shootout, and was happy to see the Weiand 2x4 tunnel-Ram totally OWNED the competition, including the other tunnel-Rams. I guess the old DC performance books were right when they said for ultimate power use the Weiand Tunnel-Ram.
 Being that I have a Weiand Tunnel-Ram on my 383 I was wondering about the power compared to the other tunnel-Rams. I guess now I know.  :ylsuper:
ROB
1972 Dodge Challenger 340ci
1970 Pro Street Duster (Under Construction)

Offline HP2

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2007 - 02:32:34 PM »
One of the major things that bummed me out was that they changed the engine specs between part 1 and part 2. I would have prefered to see an acrosss the board comparison on the same engine combo.  Although it was suprising to see that the more mild engine set up had very little variation between all the designs.

A friend of mine is putting all the data in a spreadsheet and grpahing it. Maybe I'll post it up when he gets it done.

Offline HP2

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2007 - 10:19:34 PM »
Okay, I've got the data from the stories all mushed together and I have to say, looking at it graphically, the results aren't exactly what I would have suspected and could squash some long held notions of what performs well or not and what impact some basic engine specs can do to performance. I'm looking forward to feedback from our more knowledgeable engine builders here.

So, the basics for those who haven't read the articles. Test was performed in two parts. Part one was a basic performance type rebuild with a performance cam, decent compression, and some factory iron heads. It was the basic kind of refresh most people do for your general muscle car type build with a few internal tricks and premium parts. Part two consisted of the same short block getting a larger cam and a set of Edelbrock RPM aluminum heads. Since we have two differing engine configurations, you might think it invalidates the test. However, they did use three manifold combos on both engines configurations so you can get a direct comparison of what exactly a head and cam change can do for an average build up. These would be the M1 single plane and the OEM styled six-pak.

First up is the peak performance numbers since this seems to be the most popular way for us to compare power. Graph is attached for review, so please open it up and take a gander.

The typical stuff; Torque for the dual planes all tend to occur pretty low, hanging around the 3900 rpm range for peak, while single planes peak around 5000 for a 1600+ rpm spread from highest to lowest. Values for lowest torque was 431#, highest was 494#. That is only 63 lb ft of difference.

Horsepower actually tightens things up a bit. The rpm spread from highest to lowest is no more than a 700 rpm regardless of intake, cam, or heads. Lowest horsepower was 412, highest was 540, a 128 horse difference.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2007 - 11:04:01 PM by HP2 »

Offline HP2

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2007 - 11:02:47 PM »
Next up are the average numbers. While not as sexy as the peak values, these are the numbers we live with in our cars when we're driving them as they represent the range of rpm we operate in typically from 2500-6000 rpm.

MY opinions on what I see here. Torque output, because of its narrow average difference of only 40 lb ft, is a function of compression ratio more so than cam specs. However, smaller cam durations that tightens up the cam events to build cylinder pressure can create additional torque by making an engine "think" it has more actual compression ratio than it really has. Therefore, building to the dynamic ratio is much more important building to a static ratio. The difference in compression between the two tested short blocks was pretty minimal because of the chamber size of he heads.

Horsepower differences are substantial with a 206 average difference from lowest to highest. In this case, the same short block had little impact, but the change in cam specs and head airflow made a large difference. This is most easily seen by the numbers posted by the M1 and six-pak. The M1 gained 173 horses and the six pack gained 159 horses with practically no change in average torque.

So it would seem to say that regardless of the intake, torque comes from compression and horsepower from airflow. What would have been interesting to me would have been to run the large single plane and dual quad intakes on the milder engine combo to see how much horsepower was strangled. This was sorta attempted with the Weiand high ram and single 4 bbl intake.

An interesting side note on the Weiand high ram. On the mild combo with a single 4 bbl it produced 425 lb of torque and 232 horsepower. On the beefed up combo  with dual quads it produced 453 lb ft of torque, only 28 more, but power soared to 418. Pretty impressive for something that is "supposed" to be a race only piece.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007 - 11:05:51 PM by HP2 »

Offline hemiken

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2007 - 02:24:09 AM »
Hi HP2,

Was the STR15 crossram a 6 pack intake or a proper Crossram with offset carbs ?
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Offline torredcuda

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2007 - 06:08:23 AM »
Thanks for the post.  I saw that issue and there is a lot more detail on the torque numbers and the best power in certain RPM's, incase anyone was interested.    :2thumbs:

Peak hp is great but depending on how you drive the car bottom end torque and good hp all the way thru the rpm range should be considered also.The graphs are nice but don`t show where the hp and torque curves from each intake are.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2007 - 06:12:31 AM by torredcuda »
Jeff
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70 roadrunner 383/auto  In-Violet
70 Duster 360/auto drag car  (Petty Blue soon)
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nivvy

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2007 - 11:20:15 AM »
str15-6 is the six pack intake...

Offline HP2

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2007 - 11:37:53 AM »
Peak hp is great but depending on how you drive the car bottom end torque and good hp all the way thru the rpm range should be considered also.The graphs are nice but don`t show where the hp and torque curves from each intake are.

That is the great thing about excel spreadsheets. I've got all that data in the sheet with break downs of hp and tq from down low to up high in segmented rpm breaks. If the original articles had the data, I've got it in my spreadsheet. All I have to do is alter the data set and then hit the chart key and it pops it up. Rather than plaster the forum with the dozen or so sheets I've got, I just threw up the two summary sheets, but if we want to look at any specifics, I can post those up as well.

nivvy

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Re: Intake Shootout
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2007 - 11:47:10 AM »
Its amazing how mopar intakes hasnt really progressed over the years....