THE RETURN OF...THE guy who knows nothing about cars... 1973 Challenger Project

[RUSTY Cuda]

Your not too far off from me, I know a little (Just enough to get myself in trouble) han not touched a car in over 30 years & decided to take one all the way down, did 95% myself( some things 3 or 4 times) & barley avoided thakin the sledge to it more than a few times. for the most part it's been fun, a real  learing experiance.
The guys on the boards & a few local friends have bailed me out more than once, great people this mopar crowd, they don't laugh too hard when you screw up & give you the right advice to smooth it over!
Good luck with the project . Rich.

[426HEMI]

Remember that each and everyone of us was at one time in your shoes.  Those of us that have been in to e-bodies should be able to help with your questions.  Even the ones that have been into e-bodies learn new things all the time about our love of the cars.  Just my thoughts.

[HP2]

This will not be a show car but just a driver that I will drive to death on the weekends.   I want to build this car for under $15K.  Everything is on a budget.

This is good to know and will help us help you along the way. You have a solid enough foundation to start with that you aren't going to be blowing wads of money on sheetmetal and frame repairs, so that help out significantly.

As a Viper owner, you have a perspective of what happens when brutal horsepower meshes with electronci controls and  modern suspension dynamics. As such, I would ask what your perception of a driver type muscle car cruiser means to you. This helps us keep recommendations in check for price performance and expectations. Things such as how should it drive, how should it stop, how should it corner, what it should sound like, how it should accellerate, etc.

Right off the top, don't discount a lot of the stock componenets that are out there. The design and engineering that went in to vintage mopars was decades ahead of their time and many of those vintage items are still on a level playing field with other components today.

BTW, welcome to the club. 

[Street_Challenged73]

It's good to see this project underway.   As mentioned, it would be a good idea to get the engine bay to your liking, build the engine & install it, and then finally finish up the rest of the body with paint.  However, it's not too big of a deal if you go the route you're heading, but just be extra careful placing the engine into the engine bay.  I don't know if you knew this, but MoPars are unique in that you can drop the entire engine/K-frame assembly out from underneath the car as well as reinstall the engine that way.  I've seen several members do this, but I've yet to try it myself.  As for your budget, that's still reasonable given how solid the car looks, so I'm curious how close you'll be to that number when it's all said and done.  That was around the ballpark I expected to finish mine for, but I am thinking more towards $20K when it's finally finished (Currently it's a painted underbody & engine bay with new lower quarters hung and in primer ~$10K now).

[ragtopdodge]

Wow, you're pretty brave.

Usually newbies start with at least a running car and do do-dads to make it run a little better and a few things to make it look a little better.

$15k budget?  Well...good luck.  You can easily spend $10k in drivetrain, which doesn't leave much for anything else.

Don't get too discouraged too quickly, but be prepared for a lot of downtime as these things are time sinks not to mention money pits.

Try to have fun and don't get too caught up w/internet envy (i.e. $100k restored cars w/Hemis).

[Grasshopper]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the kind words and encouragment.  I guess before I show you what I did today, I'll answer any questions or comments that you sent the night before and then update you on what is new.  Then my turn to ask questions......opinions....or who wants to buy a slightly used 1973 Challenger.....

[Grasshopper]

Plenty of us have started out just like you.  Including myself. 

First tip:  TAG AND BAG EVERYTHING!!!  EVERY DOGGONE LITTLE NUT, BOLT, SCREW, WASHER, DOOHICKEY, WHAZZIT, and HOOHAH.  Even if its rusted out and stripped, save it, because you'll need to know the size and shape if you're going to get a replacement.  What helped me was to take tons of pictures BEFORE I took parts off.  That way I at least had some visual reference for how it went together. 

Second Tip:  Get the 73 challenger chassis and body shop manuals.  Usually on ebay for about $60, these are basically as good as assembly instructions for everything on the car.

Third Tip:  The Torque Wrench is your best, if not, your only friend.  Seriously, ripping the heads off of bolts as I tightened them down is so easy.  Before I had the torque wrench and torque bolts according to the book (above), I had to extract headless bolts and screws out of parts at least once a week.

Great suggestions ASM74.  Stole ziplocks from my wifes lunch bag stuff and bagged and labelled everything I took off today.  I heard her scream from the kitchen as I was going out the door.

Found a great torque wrench at 80% off regular price.  So far I have only found the manuals on CD.  Does anyone here use the CD's?  I'm more old school in this regard and prefer books.  If you see any at a cheap price let me know.  i always want to buy at under market if I can

[Grasshopper]

 

I like you already grasshopper just from your intro 

My  .: You are starting your project out of order.... bassackwards.
You REALLY should do the mechanicals (engine/tranny/brakes/suspension etc etc.)
BEFORE you apply the shiny paint job to the outside.
I know you want it to look good as soon as possible, but you and others are going to be working over/under/around/and next to that new paint job with metal tools/parts etc.etc.

It'll either get scratched or be a major pain in the arse avoiding it (or both).

The engine compartment needs paint, but wait on the rest.

Either way...good luck.

Hi Chevyconvert,

Yes....agreed!  Being a guy I wanted to get straight to the sex and put in the engine.  None of this wamsy pamsy foreplay doing bodywork.....  However, I was advised to start with the exterior and as you suggested be very careful when installing the engine.  So I went that route.  I am mentally preparing myself for the first scratch!!

[Grasshopper]

Looks like a great project. 

The engine is your choice, but since I like small blocks, I would go with a 360-426 stroker kit from Hughs Engines using a roller block.  Go with a high lift roller cam and Edelbrock heads.  This sutup will get you an easy 500hp and keep your front end light for handling.  Plus you can use the "426" badging on the hood to strike fear into the competition.  Just my 

Either way have fun with your new project.   

jacksboys - Wow......what you wrote sounds awesome.......I have no idea what it means.....but it sounds awesome!!

Let me do some research so I understand your suggestions.....again....all this is new to me.

[Grasshopper]

Day 2 - Ok.  So we started at 7am this morning.  We decided to just get an idea of what areas are going to be trouble.  I thought we might have issues with a huge section of green putty that was on the back quarter panel (am I using the correct term?) behind the window on the drivers side.  But when we sanded it off we discovered it was all new metal and just had some waves and dents we needed to punch.  The rear quater panel were replaced with new metal by the previous owner.  It looks like the roof was also replaced.  In fact other than 3 little pinhole areas the car has no rust.  I'll show you the before after shots of the area mentioned above.

[Grasshopper]

I said the car has no rust.  I meant no real rust problems but it does have surface rust on the roof, the passenger door, and the lower part of the driverside door.  Also, the quarter panel on the passenger side behind the window (same area where that big green putty piece was on driver's side) had some surface rust and has a dent we need to fix.  We haven't finished sanding the car yet but we think the roof is going to give us the most problems nad take the most time.  We started by block sanding it but found so many waves in it and the surface rust wasn't coming off so we had to get the electric sander on it and just take everything off.  Here are the pics:

[Grasshopper]

Now...we started to address the few areas where we have to put some new metal.  Don't know the correct terms so I will describe where they are and show pictures.  Bottom lower right and left hand corner of the rear windsheild.  Upper left hand corner of trunk and lower right hand corner of trunk.

Because there is so little new metal to put on car, we discussed before hand that instead of welding small pieces we are going to use panel bonding.  My friend who is helping me and showing me how to do all this stuff has been using this technique for many years.  I was a little apprehensive at first.  But I have seen the work and it is amazing stuff.  Not sure I would do an entire panel this way but it is great for small pieces.  I'll review the process in the next post.  Here are some pictures of the rust holes, cutting out the rust, measuring for the new metal etc. 

I don't have pics yet of us putting in the new metal.

[Grasshopper]

I am going to finish off here today with this info on panel bonding.  I got this from the moparts forum where people certainly had strong feeling one way or the other about this technique.  I am not sure if I am allowed to link to other forums so I won't but if you put "panel bonding" into Google it will give you the link and you can read the thread.  This is the process taken from that thread.

it is pretty expensive stuff to use as $70 a tube.

Any thoughts on this?

Quarter Panel Bonding
Step 1. Remove all trim and any glass that needs to be removed.
Step 2. Jack vehicle up in rear and support
body with jack stands(try to make car level)
remove wheel.
Step 3. Look at new panel and determine attachement points and seams.
Using a grinder(air powered is best) with 24or 36
grit disc,grind paint off at any seams where
new panel must attach, grinding lead out of seam
exposing spot welds(not necessary on partial 1/4)
Step 4.Using a spot weld drill bit,drill out spot welds.
Drilling spot welds
A. Using a wire wheel on drill or die grinder
remove paint exposing any spotwelds that you
may not see,or covered with paint on all seams.
B. using a centerpunch,punch the center of all
spotwelds.
C.Using a spotweld cutter(Blair,Blair RotaBroach)
Drill panel till it goes thru one thickness of
metal.Drilling out each weld.
Spotwelds are located on all seams,wheel opening,
and joints.Do Not Drill Thru Metal All The Way.

D. Using a flat scraper or chisel and hammer,
slide between the two metals and pry the two
layers of metal.If metal doesn't pop apart,look
for a weld you missed or not drilled deep enough.
you may have to chisel between welds to release
if small bit of metal is holding panel.

Step 5. After drilling all welds look for any
spots that may have been brazed(brass welding)
if you find take a torch heating brass and
using a small prybar or scraper lift on panel
while heatng(Caution,Do Not Get Metal Red Hot)
torch should melt brass and release panel.

Step 6.Remove old skin. Taking a hammer
and dolly.Straighten any edges that may have
gotten bent during removal.

Step 7.Grind smooth and remove paint from
all welding flanges and seams.

Step 8.Fit new panel in place making sure
edges and body lines match adjacent panels.
Hold in place using clamps or cleeko pins.
Cleeko's are good for realigning panel during
bonding process.
On the back seam along rear bodypanel,drill
some 5/16ths holes into 1/4 skin for plug
welding it to rear body panel later.
(stitch welds can be used instead also)
Step 9.Remove new panel and place face down.
Take ginder and remove black E-coat around
inside edges(panel mateing surface)grind coating
off about half to three quarters wide.
Step 10.Apply a bead of Panel Bonding Adhesive
around inside edge of 1/4 skin, using a plastic spreader,
spread adhesive smooth covering all bare metal.

Step 11. Apply bead of adhesive on body flanges
where 1/4 skin meets,and smooth also like above.

Step 12. Apply 1/8in. bead of adhesive around
body flange surfaces.
Step 13. Place 1/4 skin on car aligning panel
to adjacent panels,making sure gaps are even
and bodylines line up.Then clamp in place
using vice grips or cleeko holding pins.
Let panel dry according to adhesive instructions.
Plug or stitch weld the rear body joint after
the adhesive has cured.
Partial 1/4 skin supplement
A. When removing old 1/4 skin cut along edge
of 1/4 leaving approx. 2 inches extra metal
underneath where top edge of partial skin stops.
B. Remove old skin and place partial skin
in place,aligning panel to adjacent panels.
C. Taking 3/4 masking tape,tape along edge of
partial skin (tape above partial 1/4 edge)
D. This step requires a flanging tool
(Air operated or hand pliers)Flange a piece
of scrap metal.Measure from edge of metal to
where crimp in metal is.Using this measurement
mark old 1/4.
E. Measure from edge of tape down to the
above crimp width measurement.cut excess metal
off to bottom of new mark.
F. Flange metal along length of old 1/4 at edge.
G. Place new partial skin in place,align panel
and check to make sure edge of panel sits
flush in flange.(trim edge of 1/4 skin if
necessary)
H. Clamp new panel in place(aligning gaps and
body lines) drill 1/8th in. holes thru
1/4 skin along seam halfway down from edge of
old and top of new panel.Secure with cleeko pins
or screws.
I. remove panel and grind coating off inside
of partial 1/4 approx. 1/2 in. down from edge.
grind any paint along old 1/4 edge.
J. Apply a liberal amount of adhesive to both
old 1/4 and new skin using same method as
above mentioned process. apply the 1/8th in.
bead of adhesive along flange and place 1/4 skin
in place.
K. align skin and put cleeko's or screws in
excisting holes along seam.Use Above method
for attching the other areas of 1/4 skin.
Let adhesive dry then smooth seam with grinder.
(Weld rear body seam as mentioned in above)
L. After removeing cleeko's and smoothing seam
with grinder,apply a coat of either
Duraglass filler or All Metal filler over seam.
smooth seam straight with sanding block
and 36 grit sand paper.
M. Finish seam with body filler then sand and
prime panel.(Inside trunk seam of 1/4 can be
smoothed over with above method then sprayed
with Paintable Rubberized Undercoating & Painted)



Tools and Materials Required
4-5 in. grinder with 24or 36 grit discs

Panel Cutter(cut-off tool or shear type)

Flat scraper or chisel

Body Hammer and Metal dolly

SpotWeld Cutter( Blair double blade or Blair
RotaBroach Cutters work best)

Cleeko panel holding pins or 1/8th in.screws
Cleeko Pliers

Flange Tool (Air operated or hand pliers)

SEM or 3M Panel Bonding Adhesive & Applicator gun
(SEM applicator gun is cheapest-Approx. $60)
(3M App. Gun is Approx. $130-$150)
Wire Feed welder for plug or stitch welding
rear body seam.
3/4 in. Tape
Pencil or Marker(Sharpie)
Sanding Block and 36 grit paper
Duraglass or All Metal filler
Body filler and Sandpaper
Paintable Rubberized Undercoating

[Grasshopper]

Can everyone see the pictures I posted?  My friends say there are no pics attached ()

[422STROKER]

 

If they aren't registered users I don't think they can view them.

Good work so far keep it up.

Tom