Author Topic: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383  (Read 3670 times)

Offline Born_Fast

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Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« on: December 19, 2007 - 09:23:00 AM »
Hi everyone!

I have not introduced myself yet, so i'll take the opportunity to do this now briefly: My name is Ralph, i'm 27 y/o and currently living in Germany. US-cars are somewhat rare here in Europe, especially classic cars and even more so classic musclecars. However they have always been an addiction for me. My dad was a professional racecar driver and while he preffered the precise handling of European sportscars, i am more thrilled by the sleek lines of American classics and the rumbling of huge V8s.

When moving to Germany about one year ago, i had to sell my former beloved cruiser - an old Pontiac Firebird. But like i said i'm addicted and soon realized, that i had to get another piece of chrome and muscle, or i'd become crazy. After educating myself through tons of articles and books on classic musclecars, the picture of my dreamcar took shape and turned out more and more to be a Challenger or 'Cuda. A 1970 one to be exact, mostly because of the continuous taillight-bar and the clean front grille. The Challenger then somehow won my sympathy just a tad over the 'Cuda, but this was mostly an emotional decision that i can't really explain, because both cars are equally awesome.

Trying to buy a classic Challenger here in Europe can be a real pain. Either they are rusty and broken, way too overprized, or some weirdos turned them into laughable "fast & furious style" redneck rockets. So i had to look around in the states and import one myself. After reading through countless online ads for weeks, negotiating with private sellers and cardealers alike, i finally found what i believe to be a fair offer. A dealer in Florida was selling a triple black numbers-matching 70 Challenger 383 automatic in said-to-be almost flawless condition for 35.000,- US. Not a real bargain, but fair i guess. And i wanted an all black one anyway, so i took the chance and bought it rightaway without a testdrive or proof of it's condition. Risky - i know. Now i haven't got my hands on it yet, because the car is still being handled by the shipping company. But it should arrive here shortly and i'm sure you can guess how excited i am to finally take my first ride in it.

Some more specs:

I guess it is a base model, because it does not have the vinyl roof, SE or RT was nowhere mentioned, it has factory front-benchseats and (automatic) steering-gearshift instead of a floorshifter. Tri-Y headers, disc brakes, Rally wheels and the original twin-scoop hood.
The dealer could not tell me the actual engine's power output. But from the engine pictures that i've seen, it looks like an Edelbrock two-barrel carb, which would make it around 200 net-hp on the rw if i'm correct. Not exactly a drag racer, but could be worse and can still be improved.


Now i have a couple of questions, since you guys are the experts and i really hope you can help me out:


1.) Right now the car seems to be pretty much in factory condition, although nicely restored - but i'd like to make some minor modifications to it. These would include changing the original (hidden) dual exhaust to the R/T dual double exhaust with the matching rear ground panel, putting on a set of Torq Thrust rims, installing a proper soundsystem,  a flip-top-gas-cap, clear turn signal lenses and spicing up the engine with at least a four-barrel-carb or even a sixpack. Most of the parts i plan to install would be (new) reproduction or third party parts. My question: Would these modifications lower the car's value if i decide to sell it one day? Of course i plan to keep all the original parts and destroy nothing, so that the next owner can restore the factory condition easily.

2.) Does a sixpack fit under the factory hood? If not - which one is the best carb to have under the factory hood and what's the difference in performance, compared to the sixpack?

3.) What would be the easiest way to get more power out of the 383, besides changing the carb? I'm talking about most-horses-for-money tuning.

4.) How does such tuning affect the gas consumption? Because gas prices are pretty insane around here these days.

5.) Does a regular DIN size radio fit in the factory dashboard? If not - then what kind of CD- or mp3-radio does fit in without harming the original interior?


Thanks a ton in advance for all of your replies.

All the best,
Ralph




Offline 71bigblock

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2007 - 10:00:04 AM »
Well, I'll take a stab at it.  One thing you should know, if you go with a six pack setup, you have to go with a 440.  It would be overkill for the 383, not to mention not correct.  At all. 

1-  To me it would lower the value.  To others it will increase.  It all depends on what you like.  If you dump $10,000 on a 440 six pack setup, of course it will increase in value, and someone would pay more for that car.  '70 440-6 triple black challenger, wow.  Very nice car, something I would love to look at, but not to own. 

2-  Yes, six pack fits fine under the r/t bulge hood.

3-  I'd start with electronic ignition.  With the pertronix kit, you can have electronic ignition, and hidden, so it still appears stock.  Helps clear up missing, stumbling, etc, and is much more precise than points.  I got my kit for $80 and it helped dramatically.

4-  You add a six pack, things words like mpg and efficiency are lost from your vocabulary.   :roflsmiley:  Think like less than 10 mpg...   :faint:

5-  I think any regular sized cd player fits fairly well in the stock hole. 

Hope this helps, and as always, someone correct me if they see fit...   :bigsmile:

Offline Born_Fast

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007 - 10:44:13 AM »
Hi bigblock,

thanks for the fast reply.

You say the sixpack would be too much for the 383. But while searching for my soon-to-be car, i found a california 70' 383 that had the sixpack installed under a T/A hood. Is it just a matter of time until this setup blows up? Then i'm more than relieved that i didn't buy it.

And wasn't the sixpack even offered on the 340 engine? Then why can't the larger 383 take it? I'm asking because i'm no technical expert, but want to understand this before accidentally changing something for the worse.

What is the best carb setup to have on the 383 in your opinion?

Does the pertronix kit you mention actually increase horsepower, or does it "only" help te engine to run smoother? How much is the estimated gain in hp?

Cheers!

Offline tactransman

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2007 - 10:46:46 AM »
Welcome to CC.com!
Terry-tactransman 
Torqueflite/Automatic Transmission Specialist
Union, Mo.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007 - 01:25:41 PM »
Welcome
The 6 pack is available for the 383 & yes it will easily fit under the hood , an intake swap will not hurt the value of the car it only takes minutes to swap the intake back to stock & yes the 6 pack can be very efficient But for the cost of a 6 pack I would just get a more modern intake & 4 bbl carb it will perform better for less than 1/2 the cost
 The next improvement would be changing th Cam  , some of the more modern grinds will increase both power & efficency
 Tuning is the most important thing affecting both power & milage , increasing initial timing & reducing vacuum advance makes a huge difference as well as basic carb settings

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline 426HEMI

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2007 - 01:26:48 PM »
 :iagree:
Got a pretty good start on my M46 optioned Barracuda restoration but now it is on hold till I can gather more funds.  Still need a few parts for it.  SIU Graduate 75 AAS Automotive Tech, 94 BS Advanced Tech Studies, 1997 MSED Workforce Education and Development

1970 M46 Barracuda
1998 Dodge Darango

Gordon

Offline 71bigblock

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2007 - 01:31:21 PM »
A six pack will work fine with a 383 and the right carbs.  Yes, the six pack was also on T/A and AAR models.  Its just that when someone asks, "Is that a 440 six pack?"  

And you say, "No, its a 383 six pack"  Most people will probably tilt their head funny, because they have never heard it.  Most mopar people will probably immediately say that they never offered a 383 six pack, and offer their honest opinion about it, probably put it down.  You can do a 383 six pack, sure, but I would think that the cons outweigh the pros.   :dunno:  It is up to you though of course...

I have a 625 cfm 4 bbl carb on my 383 now.  It is probably not enough for most people, but for me it is fine.  Anything over a 750 cfm carb on an otherwise stock 383 is overkill, and would be wasting fuel.  

I believe that the pertronix does give a bit of a horsepower gain, just because of efficiency.  I would guess about 5 hp or so, not really sure.   :dunno:

 :cheers:

edit: I see that CP chimed in.  Listen to him, he is the master tech here at cc.com   :2thumbs:
« Last Edit: December 19, 2007 - 01:33:29 PM by 71bigblock »

Offline Born_Fast

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2007 - 04:19:27 PM »
Welcome
The 6 pack is available for the 383 & yes it will easily fit under the hood , an intake swap will not hurt the value of the car it only takes minutes to swap the intake back to stock & yes the 6 pack can be very efficient But for the cost of a 6 pack I would just get a more modern intake & 4 bbl carb it will perform better for less than 1/2 the cost
 The next improvement would be changing th Cam  , some of the more modern grinds will increase both power & efficency
 Tuning is the most important thing affecting both power & milage , increasing initial timing & reducing vacuum advance makes a huge difference as well as basic carb settings

Thanks to all of you for the warm welcome! I really appreciate that.

I have visited some other Challenger forums before that i was not so fond of, but now i know that i finally found the right place, with lots of likeminded enthusiasts and specialists. Great to meet you guys!!

According to your feedback, the 6pack obviously works on a 383 but sure doesn't seem to be the best option. Alright - you convinced me to look for something more modern.

I'm not all that familiar with english car-related terminology yet, so what is a 4 bbl carb?

Is there any specific brand/model modern intake and carb that you can highly recommend me? That would help a lot, since i have no slight clue what is out there on the market.

And what is the best cam (brand/model) to get on a 383, along with the above questioned intake and carb?

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2007 - 05:36:17 PM »
As for your radio question... any single DIN after-market radio will have a sleeve that fits fine in the original location. It's all a matter of tapping into the old wiring, or running new stuff. I tapped into the old wires for power, but ran new larger wires for the speakers.  :thumbsup:


  Mike

Mike

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2016 SXT+.  1 of 524 SXT+'s in Plumb-crazy for 2016.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2007 - 12:32:35 AM »
I like the Proform & Holley carbs best ......on a 383 I would be looking at 750-800 Cfm the Holley 750 HP Street series works great

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline 71340RT

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2007 - 01:21:58 AM »
Welcome
The 6 pack is available for the 383 & yes it will easily fit under the hood , an intake swap will not hurt the value of the car it only takes minutes to swap the intake back to stock & yes the 6 pack can be very efficient But for the cost of a 6 pack I would just get a more modern intake & 4 bbl carb it will perform better for less than 1/2 the cost
 The next improvement would be changing th Cam  , some of the more modern grinds will increase both power & efficency
 Tuning is the most important thing affecting both power & milage , increasing initial timing & reducing vacuum advance makes a huge difference as well as basic carb settings
:iagree:


70 Plymouth Cuda 340 4-speed
71 Dodge Challenger RT 340 automatic
1973 Dodge Challenger 360 automatic EFI
2002 Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide
2003 Dodge Stratus RT coupe
2009 Challenger RT Classic B5 Blue
2014 Ram Express 5.7 Hemi 4X4

Offline Born_Fast

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2007 - 03:41:20 AM »
:wow: That already is a TON of great useful advice!! Way more than i expected to get.

G-man: We'll definitely get and keep in touch, because we seem to really be in the same boat. Cheers mate!  :cheers:

Finally i found out how to add attachements, to give you an idea of my car and it's engine. Maybe you know this carb setup by it's looks.

Offline Born_Fast

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2007 - 04:04:43 AM »
Here are some pics of the rims i want to install. i'm not sure yet which version, but they will most definitely be Torq Thrust and they will definitely be black with chrome trim ring. I've also attached a photoshopped pic of my car as kind of a preview. I'm thinking about going 1" larger on the rearwheels, than on the front. Think like 15" front and 16" on the rearwheels. Or 16"/17". The rearwheels are wider anyway, so i guess adding 1" on the rims there wouldn't hurt either and it would give the car a mean stance. Has this been done before? What are the experiences? Maybe it would destroy the handling, and/or look crap, then i'll of course go for 15" or 16" on all wheels.

Offline Born_Fast

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2007 - 04:25:00 AM »
Coming back to my initial carb question, i think i start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel. I'll stick with a carb and forget about EFI, because the later one seems to be WAY too expensive for the marginal difference in performance it delivers.

Holley single 4barrel carbs seem to be the most recommended. Can someone please educate me on the difference in performance and mileage between 625cfm and 750cfm?

Regarding manifolds/intakes: I read that a single plane manifold like the "StreetDom" is said to be the most versatile thing that delivers good performance at virtually any rpm. Dual plane seems more suitable if someone wants low rpm power, but it'll somewhat limit high rpm output. Right? In this case i'd go for a single plane setup, as i want my engine to be an "allround performer", not just at low rpm.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2007 - 04:33:23 AM by Dreamcruiser »

Offline Born_Fast

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Re: Introduction & questions on tuning a 70' 383
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2007 - 05:28:36 AM »
I'm absolutely gettin what you mean for the wheelsizes. And hell NO, i'm definitely not going for a "Euro" or ricer-look. What i was thinking of is more the wheel setup of older HotRods, or Dragracers, that also have larger rearwheels, than frontwheels. Or at least something that remotely resembles such a setup, with the rearwheels being only 1" bigger. But i guess 15" x4 would also do just fine.

Some points that i've taken from the other thread you posted: "...I like the recent Hot Rod article on 383 intakes, and which is the best... Their testing showed that dual plane intakes did not have a whole lot of variation between them. Single planes, on the other hand, had a rather large gap in how some performed. It also showed what I have always suspected but never could prove, that the weiand tunnel ram was a lot better than most manifolds across the rpm band, even down low. So the ultimate torque and power set up for a street engine may be a Weiand high ram tunnel ram with dual 390 holleys..."

What do you guys think about that?

One more thing: I'm not going to compete for "best looking engine". What i'm looking for is solid, reliable everyday allround performance. Power that pulls through on twisted mountain roads, as well as straight highways. Power that i can utilize to take off quickly from a stoplight, and also for effortles overtaking at higher rpms and speeds.

With one liter of fuel costing more than 2,- USD here, gas consumption DOES somewhat matter though. So it should not go beyond 18-20 liter per kilometer. I read that the sixpack can take economy down to 10mpg, which means almost 29 liter per kilometer. If that happens, i would clearly not be able to drive my Challenger as often as i'd like to.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007 - 06:06:40 AM by Dreamcruiser »