Disc brake conversion hardware question/poll

[HP2]

I'm looking at some disc brake options and would like some opinions on what arrangement you'd be willing to pay for if you were upgrading your car and why. Kits are designed to use the factory 11.75 rotors for simplicity and availability and cost reduction. Calipers are the core of the upgrade with multiple pistons to give increased brake feel, increase brake force, and reduced weight over the single piston iron stockers. Pad availability with all ranges from average stock to to medium duty track to heavy duty, eat up the rotors with heavy use material.

Viper calipers are the better unit in materials, performance, and longevity. Wilwoods are much lighter and slightly better than stock in power, but lacking dust seals will require annual inspections to make sure they are still on good working order. Vette calipers are floating style, two piston design that are everywhere, hence cheap. FYI, entry level Baers are all based off vette C5 units. Compared to the Viper and Wilwood, vettes are not much better than the stock units but are a little lighter.

[Chryco Psycho]

I guess I need a lot more info on what advantages each offer , I am cheap so maybe the Vette calipers would work the best for the low price otherwise used Viper calipers & install new seal kits could be a good option

[426HEMI]

What is the cheapest way of going?  Any links or suggestions?

[Bullitt-]

Would a late model mustang caliper be an option...500 a set for new would need to make your own adapter plate. something like the AR Engineering piece for the viper caliper.  Mutang may not be the best but my 98 gt gets it done.


   

[HP2]

Kit cost break down is to do a complete front end, new 11.75 rotors, bearings, seals, hoses, then the specialized caliper adapters and, of course, the calipers. So the price differential is purely due to the adapter and caliper pricing. There is a fairly large spread between used and new Viper parts, hence the large difference at that end of the spectrum. I'm restricting things to 11.75 because of the the 15" wheels I'm using. If I'd step up to 17", then I'd just get a 13" rotor kit and be done with it, but I already have the wheels and tires and don't want to dump a couple grand on new ones just to go dump another couple of grand on even bigger brakes.

Wilwood and Viper kits are AR Engineering pieces. Very well thought out and functional. There is no kit for corvette parts, unless you count Baer. Nor is there anything using Mustang calipers out there either. I just threw that in there to spike your melon. Although there is a rumor that Kore3, OEM supplier for Corvettes, is working on Ford and Mopar kits for C5 and C6 binders. I suppose a seperate, yet expensive option would be to entirely change spindles to fabricated units and use 12.12 rotors with Nascar Cup type 6 piston calipers, but talk about buck$$$!!

Pros/Cons

Wilwood; race proven design, light weight-10# per wheel weight reduction, four piston, fixed bridge design with high clamping force, consistent sized (1.75) pistons for variety of applications so may require balance valve or change in rear wheel cylinders, no dust seals, requires regular inspections, pads only available from Wilwood distributors, very racey looking, only available in black at this price, but for $150 more, can be ordered in red.

Viper; race and street proven design, lighter than stock-about 5-7# reduction from original, four piston fixed bridge design with very high clamping force,  offset sized pistons (38 and 42 mm) to maximize leading/trailing clamping forces, originally designed for heavy vehicle with high output, reliable street use for many years with no problems, pads available almost any where, just plain bad mo fo looking, originally only available in black with RT10 or Viper printed on them, but rebuilds are available in any color-black-red-silver-yellow-etc also with Viper printed on them for no additional money.

Info on adapter kits; http://www.arengineering.com/caliper_menu/calipermenu.html

[gkring]

http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/pdf/MP001.pdf
How do these rate? Even though they include rotors and master cylinder the $1200 price seems high.
I thought someone made kits to use mustang parts, but I might be confusing it with the Alterkation suspension options.

[HP2]

I don't know anything about them outside of their ads.

Couple things right off the top about the SSBC units; that transfer tube sticking out into space could cause wheel intereference issues. Pad availability from outside sources other than SSBC. Rebuildability of the caliepr outside of SSBC. Rotor size-they use an 11.25 rotor. A big part of the factor for larger rotors providing additional stopping power is not necessarily the swept area but rather the leverage they have against the hub. Smaller rotors produce less leverage. These are giving up half an inch to provide a broader range of fitment. I already know my 11.75s fit so why go smaller.

Yes, there actually are a fairly broad selection of brake kits that fit mustang 2 spindles. These are the core of the Alterkation conversion. I don't know of anything to put later model Mustang stuff on stock spindles. With a floating two piston design, I don't see them gaining much over the stock stuff.

More advantages; Wilwood has been around for 30 some years and are well established. Viper stuff  is factory supported, so even if the company disappeared, there are enoguh of them already out there to keep maintainence parts available in my lifetime.

[Chryco Psycho]

I actually prefer the SSBC to the Willwood , wilwood is more race stuff not really street friendly
 the brake crossover line on the ssbc is actually tight to the caliper & will not cause interference with the wheel unless the wheel extend very far inwards

[Super Blue 72]

What is the cheapest way of going?  Any links or suggestions?

Here's a Mopar action article, not sure of the cost but I would think much cheaper than Viper brakes, but performance of this set up vs any of the above mentioned stuff I dunno...

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html

I was looking at a Car Craft magazine last night and they say even just trying out a really good set of pads will help braking considerably.  That may be the cheapest step. 

You probably already know this but make sure that what you have is in good operation already, for example, make sure the brakes are bled, drum brakes adjusted well, calipers move freely, etc....  These are small things that effect the overall performance that one might not think about. 

[426HEMI]

Thanks that will be a really good source of information for me.  It is hard to remember everything you need to know or even at one time knew.

[HP2]

You probably already know this but make sure that what you have is in good operation already, for example, make sure the brakes are bled, drum brakes adjusted well, calipers move freely, etc....  These are small things that effect the overall performance that one might not think about. 

That is a good article for the overall tech and info. I do disagree with the spindle assesement for a variety of reasons, but don't need to get into that here.

Other things of importance to maximize performance are clean fluid with no moisture in it, bedding in pads properly, brake bias is proper, brake pressure is sufficient, and adequate airflow to the brakes is maintained.  These are often overlooked items that are of no big deal to a street driven vehicle, but when your doing hot laps on a track and pulling down speeds from 100 mph regularly, can make a world of difference in stopping power and fade resistance.

I'm actually surprised that more votes haven't chimed in since brake swaps are always a popular topic.

[Super Blue 72]

I'm actually surprised that more votes haven't chimed in since brake swaps are always a popular topic.

You didn't put an option for "Local auto parts store $25 semi-metallic brake pads"!   

[Hopalong]

Hey HP, don't forget that bigger rotors can also take more heat than a smaller one, less brake fade.  I believe that the Viper caliper is really nothing more than a Brembo (I held both in my hands at the same time and did not see any difference).  More research would be needed, but if that is the case, used caliper options really open up.  Porsche, Mitsu Evo, Sub STi would be just a few options, and Ebay is loaded with them.  When I checked with a local dealer (about a year ago), he could get 06 Viper calipers (only) for under $300 new.  I was looking at the AR kit at the time.  96 Viper calipers (new) were just under $500.  That's without pads.  The Wilwoods look great, but the whole lack of dust seals thing is what gets me.

[HP2]

You didn't put an option for "Local auto parts store $25 semi-metallic brake pads"!   

Good point! I did change the title to see if I can get some more input.

Porsche, Mitsu Evo, Sub STi would be just a few options, and Ebay is loaded with them.  When I checked with a local dealer (about a year ago), he could get 06 Viper calipers (only) for under $300 new.  I was looking at the AR kit at the time.  96 Viper calipers (new) were just under $500.  That's without pads.  The Wilwoods look great, but the whole lack of dust seals thing is what gets me.

Never thought about the Brembo angle. I did find a source for rebuilt 1st gen calipers for $160 each, IF they have the cores available, which they did not when I asked. I've found used take off units from $150 to $400 each, without pads. I never thought about 2nd gen calipers being cheaper. Of course they have a different mounting method and would require differing adapters. I have talked to ARE about coming up with some differing kits they might consider like 2nd or 3rd gen vipers to 11.75 or Wilwood GN nascar calipers to 11.75 and they are adament that what they have is all they are going to offer.

I've talked to a number of GM guys who use Wilwood set ups and they all seem to like them. They say as long as you clean and inspect them annually, they  are just fine and you could easily get many many miles out of them without incident. So I guess it comes down to what look you want under your wheels and what type of weather you would anticipate running in. Since I have driven my Challenger in the snow and ice recently, I guess I should keep weather seals on my calipers, but your mileage may differ.

[miketyler]

Not to side track your thread but what about budget rear only options? I'm not concerned about high-perf, just improving existing rear to discs as cheaply as possible? I saw the Scarebird bracket that mounts to the rear axle flange for mounting calipers? Brackets are $130/pr shipped.  Do you have any details on this or other info on rear-only alternatives?