Author Topic: Worthwhile Mods  (Read 2954 times)

Offline Sunny

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Worthwhile Mods
« on: January 17, 2008 - 09:56:36 PM »
Hey guys. I'm kind of a newbie here.. What mods do MOPAR's best respond to?? Tires? Suspension? Engine / Tranny work? Rear end gears? Im looking into getting a Challenger or Cuda, and I wondered what kind of aftermarket upgrades there were. I know that MOPAR muscle has the least readily available parts, just from what I've seen, but Im hoping that you guys know some places that carry good aftermarket parts.
How much would I have to put into a car, to make it run 12's?.
I know I need to be more specific.. I'm thinking probably a 4 speed manual... 340, or 440.. Which should I look for? Ive seen a lot of cars with swapped 440's.. what would they be out of.. ?

Thanks for all your help!

 :working:




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2008 - 03:31:07 AM »
I guess it depends what you want from your car , Mopars respond to anything you listed & more depending what you want
a decent 440 with traction will get 12s , a small blockwill cost more & need more mods to hit 12s , Mopar only really had 1 4 spd , the 833 but diffeent gear ratios & other parts were used over the years including the Hemi 18 spline version & the OD version
440s can be found in a lot of vehicles from performance cars to Motorhomes & trucks , I would seriously be looking at a 512 stroker kit into a 440 block for reliable performance with lots of torque & potential 

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Offline cudabob496

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2008 - 03:38:02 AM »
Welcome, new guy!
High flowing heads are probably your best bang for the buck!
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

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Offline hemiken

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2008 - 04:26:51 AM »
Hey Sunny,

It will all depend on your driving style.  Bang for buck, it will be hard to look past doing a stroker 440 as it is cheaper do build a stroker these days as it is to do a decent freshen up on a stock 440. :2thumbs:
1970 Barracuda   (O^--^===|===^--^O)
1971 Barracuda   (O O {]{]{]|[}[}[} O O)
1970 Challenger  (O O [======R/T=] O O)
1971 Challenger  (O O ===== ===== O O)
I pay homage to the best Mopars ever built.

Offline Sunny

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2008 - 10:17:35 AM »
Is there a lot of performance parts available out there for MOPAR's? Thanks for your help guys! Ive always liked MOPAR muscle, and Dodge in general [Ive had 2 Rams, both of which have been AMAZING. My 97 lasted until 500,000KM before I sold it.. it has 650 on it and its never had any MAJOR problems.. my new [2003] Ram already has 210,000KM on it and again, nothing major.]. The only reason I never really got into the muscle cars, was because Dodge muscle seemed to be a lot more expensive.. I have a Z28 Camaro as well.. which I love [I love anything V8 / RWD].

How is Dodge's 4 speed? Any known issues with it?
Would the power ratings be significantly different on a 440 from say.. a motor home than a challenger? Is there anything I could do to boost them?
Does anyone know WHY Dodge parts are more expensive?
What kind of price am I looking to spend for a 4 speed 70-71 Cuda/Challenger?
What is Shuregrip? Is that like GM's Posi-traction?
What gears will the rear end accommodate up to?

Sorry for all my stupid questions!

Offline dodge freak 2

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2008 - 11:31:44 AM »
Theres less demand and parts for Dodge, Mopars so higher prices.

As for the trans, I am unsure of the costs but I am sure they are getting rare and most might need new parts like gears, bearings since they are getting so old.

Richman makes 4 and 5 speed trans. It might not be a Mopar trans but I am sure Richman makes them the fit Mopar motors. I would price both trans and would think the aftermarket trans would have more gear choices, speeds-some have overdrive to now which with gasoline so high, might be what to get. Once you get it running good you might want to drive it, alot.

Rear end should stay with a Mopar unit, the guys have would know which is best for a big block. 

Offline ViperMan

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2008 - 12:41:00 PM »
What kind of price am I looking to spend for a 4 speed 70-71 Cuda/Challenger?

How much money do you have?

70-71 Seem to be the Golden Years - the years that everybody wants.  72's and 73's, and the handful of 74's don't run as much, but they're slightly different body styles, trim, etc.

It seems to me like you want a car that you can buy, throw a couple parts in, and go run 12's at the track.  Being that I've worked in restoration shops, I feel the need to let you know that this A) won't be easy and B) won't be cheap.

Expect to spend probalby about 20,000 for a car in good working shape with minimal rust, decent interior and running, functional drivetrain.  That's probably on the cheap end too - if you can find a good deal.  This will probably net you a small block, or possibly a 383 big-block, which aren't as popular.  440's seem to command higher prices, and Hemi's are through the roof.

These cars aren't tuners, either.  There's no real "cold air intake" or "computer upgrades" like you can throw on the newer cars.  You can try a different intake, different heads as suggested, a full stroker kit, more agressive camshaft, or headers (if not already equipped.)  Parts prices can range from about 200 for an intake or camshaft, up to 1000+ for headers or heads.  If you can do the parts swapping yourself you're in good shape, otherwise look to spend a decent buck to have someone install it for you.

I'm currently just starting the process of building a big block 440 for my Barracuda, '73.  I'm looking at $5K to $6K just to finish the motor, and another $6K or so to get the car ready to accept it and run safely.  I paid $11,000 for my Barracuda, just a year ago.  It had a numbers-matching 318 small block.

I will say that the members of this board have been a tremendous help, and if you listen carefully, you can learn an awful lot!

Welcome and good luck.

Jeff
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008 - 12:44:07 PM by 73Barracuda »
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Offline go-fish

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2008 - 01:02:26 PM »
Theres less demand and parts for Dodge, Mopars so higher prices.

As for the trans, I am unsure of the costs but I am sure they are getting rare and most might need new parts like gears, bearings since they are getting so old.

Richman makes 4 and 5 speed trans. It might not be a Mopar trans but I am sure Richman makes them the fit Mopar motors. I would price both trans and would think the aftermarket trans would have more gear choices, speeds-some have overdrive to now which with gasoline so high, might be what to get. Once you get it running good you might want to drive it, alot.

Rear end should stay with a Mopar unit, the guys have would know which is best for a big block. 

If you are going to google "Richman" I don't know what you will find but you may want to look into Richmond or Kiesler or Mopar 5 Speed if you want to look into 5 speeds. If 4 gears will do you try Passon Performance. They have ready to ship aluminum and OE iron A833 4 speeds.
It sounds like you like big blocks a little more and there are plenty of upgadeable things for those.
You should look into buying a nice running driving 4 speed 440 car so you will be ahead of the game there.

Offline HP2

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2008 - 02:16:49 PM »

I'd go so far as to say that there is probably no better time to own a mopar than now. Even compared to back in the day. There is more technology, more development, and more parts available for more combinations now than there ever has been in the past. This includes engiens, driveline, chassis, body and interior.

The reason why you see the price differences is simple supply and demand. Here is an example; for the entire production run from 1970 to 1974, there were fewer Cudas and Challengers built, combined, than any single year of Camaro or Mustang production. That number is also representative of overall production figures for all makes and all models for most years, so just by their nature mopars are a more scare animal, which means fewer cars are out there that need parts, hence less demand, which means development and manufacturing costs are spread over a smaller customer base.

However, the converse of that is that the parts we do have access to are usually more pertinent to bonfide performance than other makes. You won't have a choice of 15 different header bolts for a mopar, but there are any number of hard part producers that can make anything for a mopar that they can for a chevy or ford. So, while we have to buy new heads and camshafts, we may not need new cranks and rods, so total cost to produce comparable amounts of power to other brands is actually much closer than you might think.

Probably the biggest improvement, across the board, any size engine in any car you can make to any mopar is breathing capability. Heads are the real pinch point that can reap benefits when improved. Everything else is usually much more stout than it needs to be a for a street application. Even in racing applications, there is not a huge amount of changes that are required for high power and long life.

The cars are not much different in the repsect than the engines. They were very progressive for their time and had engineering in them that was decades ahead of others. Another example; 1st gen camaros and mustangs have some significant front suspension geometry issues that require a lot of work and/or parts to correct to make them great handling cars. Mopars have never had these types of issues and typically came with brakes, transmissions, and rear ends that were more than strong enough to put up with the heaps of street abuse that was laid on them. Ex #3; the brakes that came on first generation GTOs are the same size as what come standard on the 6 cylinder economy mopars.

Outside of that, you really need to get something in your hands before we can say what it needs to be better, faster, stronger. If it is a 65 Barracuda with a six banger, it is going to need more and different stuff than if you score a 71 Challenger big block 6 pak car.

BTW, welcome to the club.   :thumbsup:

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2008 - 02:39:00 PM »
 :iagree:
the parts selection is better than ever ,
the 4 sps are bullet proof but do wear out , you may need new countershafts & brgs but all parts are available , Jenkins used 833 in ProstockCamaros back in the late 60s as it was a far better tranny
 any 440 can be built to the same power levels , no Bad 440s out there  the same mods can be done to any of them , & as HP said you need to buy a lot less parts to bring a Mopar to = power levels as Chev engines
Sure grip & posi are the same thing
 & unlike GM the 8 3/4 diff will accomadate virtually any gear ratio without swapping parts

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Offline ViperMan

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2008 - 02:40:54 PM »
Outside of that, you really need to get something in your hands before we can say what it needs to be better, faster, stronger. If it is a 65 Barracuda with a six banger, it is going to need more and different stuff than if you score a 71 Challenger big block 6 pak car.

:iagree:

Even starting to build my 440 I've learned that there are nearly infinite options for these engines and cars.  Find something that'll give you a good starting point and help guide your cost expectances for the future.  Be sure to check out the cars for sale forum, as well as the Ebay/Craigslist forums.

Jeff
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2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited - Trail Rated - 4.7L V8, Auto
2010 Dodge Challenger SE Rallye - 3.5L V6, Auto (Wife's!)

Offline Sunny

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2008 - 02:53:08 PM »
Thats good to hear about the rear end.. I hated how you needed a bunch of different carriers for different gear ratios with GM.. how strong are the dodge rear ends? I know GM 10-bolts are complete crap..
How much power would one stand up to?
Are there any 6 speed transmissions for a cuda/challenger?

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2008 - 02:56:48 PM »
The Viper T56 could bemade to fit the car but it will take floor mods to get it into place
the 8 3/4 is stronger then the GM 12 bolt , & will take a lot of power but still has limitations , the Dana will not break & is literally the strongest diff ever used in a production car

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Offline Sunny

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2008 - 03:06:16 PM »
Awesome. I dont want to cut the floor, so maybe I'll try to find one to convert to five speed..
Another question, if I managed to pick up a 440.. what kind of intake should I run? are there many 6-packs around for sale? How much more power would a 6 pack make, over a 4 bbl or 2x4bbls?

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Worthwhile Mods
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2008 - 03:13:11 PM »
the 6 pack is readily available , I have a customer with a new one for sale But I have seen less power than with a modern intake & single 4 bbl , I prefer the Holley SD intake or the performer RPM with a 850 double pump carb on a 440 or 950 on a 512 ci 

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