Building a 500/400 F.F.E. with Mega-Squirt

[airfueleddie]

I am building a 500" Low deck with a sonic tested thick wall 400 block. The mains have been honed, block decked, lifters bores lightly honed, Fixture bored and honed with torque plates, 4.375 final size with proper RA finish for Moly rings, A bought a stroker kit that has a K-1,(Carillo) 4340 Crank& H-Beam 4340 Rods, 2618 forged Keith Black Pistons. This will be a street engine first and foremost, internal oiling, no ring supports,(but it's very close!!), probably 10.5-11.0 to 1 compression with alloy heads,(I havent got that far yet, but am looking hard at the 440source heads), I already have set of beautiful 440MAX 17-4 stainless steel bronze bushed rockers with thick wall shafts and H.D. holddowns with ARP studs in 1.6 ratio factory offset so the Eddies rpm's or 440 source is the way to go. I would probably use a solid cam,,(specs unknown at this time), the oil through lifters are interesting, I wonder how the low speed oil pressure would hold up? The oil holes are 16x .019 so would this affect the low speed oil pressure? I am going to use coated bearings,(full groove Calico), H.V MoPar Oil Pump. I am picking up the machined block and stroker kit at the Indy MoPar trade Show this march 1 at the Marsh pavillion fairgrounds. Hope it's not as cold as last year. It was blowing snow and 28 out. I will include pics as I recieve them. Oh I am saving the best for last but I am going to inject this thing and  use a MegaSquirt II P.C.M. to control it.

[airfueleddie]

Another

[422STROKER]

Nice project Eddie, keep the photos coming.

Tom

[airfueleddie]

Here is a set of valve covers I bought off of Brandon@440source when he had the damaged ones. There is a thin scratch on top but it's barely noticeable. I'm gonna paint em Hemi orange regardless. Not bad for 99.95 plus the ARP stud kit at 24.99.

[airfueleddie]

Sorry I couldnt get those covers. They are the regular billet/fabricated ones at www.440source.com that he had marked down/discounted for 99.95 instead of 149.95 I think. Not bad for something thats gonna get painted anyways. I fear my poor bank account is going to be depleted once again, and the 'stench of lies' to my angry wife will resume, again! (saving money on this project is a joke)

[airfueleddie]

I am going to attempt to set the injection equipment for use as a flex fuel engine. E-85 with a G.M. F.F. Composition sensor. It produces a 1500 Mhz spread across the readings form 50 Mhz to approx 1500. This will provide info to the PCM to adjust the pulse width accordingly. The A/F ratio with gas is of course is apprx. 14 parts air to approx 1 part fuel. With E-85 it's much, much 'richer' than that. Almost double that! Input appreciated! Anyone have any E-85 experience? I realize the corrosive nature of alcohol based fuels but the benefits are very nice. High Octane,(approx 105 ROM), burns much cleaner, pre-ignition and detonation are less with alcohol. It's cheaper and renewable. They are building a huge E-85 plant in my area so supply should be almost guaranteed but with the sensor I can use regular pump premium if in a bind and the PCM will alter both timing and fuel supply accordingly.

[HP2]

I'd recommend against doing a dual fuel performance engine and suggest you build for either gasoline or E85, but not both. Reason being that the octane of the gasoline is going to limit how much cylinder pressure you can build into your engine with the hard parts. This limitation means you will never fully utilize the available octane rating of the E85 so you'll be giving away performance potential while still consuming it at the accelerated rate.

As you noticed, the consumption rate for alcohol is pretty large, so you gross mileage drops as well. In my flex fuel Suburban, it is actually cheaper to just use gasoline, unless E85 is being sold for $.60 less than what gasoline is selling for. 

[airfueleddie]

I'd recommend against doing a dual fuel performance engine and suggest you build for either gasoline or E85, but not both. Reason being that the octane of the gasoline is going to limit how much cylinder pressure you can build into your engine with the hard parts. This limitation means you will never fully utilize the available octane rating of the E85 so you'll be giving away performance potential while still consuming it at the accelerated rate.

As you noticed, the consumption rate for alcohol is pretty large, so you gross mileage drops as well. In my flex fuel Suburban, it is actually cheaper to just use gasoline, unless E85 is being sold for $.60 or more than what gasoline is selling for. 

HP2, Thanks so much for your response! I am looking for exactly this kind of feedback. I have never attempted anything like this before and want to  utilize an effective and logical buildplan before I screw this thing together. As of now, I suspect my compression is going to be a little higher than expected. I wanted a true mechanical compression ratio of no higher than 10.0 to 1 with closed chamber alloy heads. Being a flattop piston with -.006 deck height,(piston top@TDC). I should have used dished pistons but the compression height is already a short 1.220,(From piston pin to top of piston), No ring supports. I think it's gonna be around 11.8 or so. A little too high for pump premium. I want squench to reduce chamber temps and to build more detonation tolerance,(No more than .060 Piston to head clearance). I may have to go straight E-85 as you say. I dont think E-85 will become a 'fad' do you? There are more than 100 plants being built in the md-west (from info gleaned from the various E-85 sites). BtW, HP2, how does your Suburban run with it? Did you notice any increse in vehicle perofrmance or driveability problems? Any hard starts or rough running until the cylinder gets some heat into to increase the vaporization and atomization? Thanks again, Eddie

[HP2]

I only ran a few tankfuls in the summer. Mileage dropped pretty severely so once I did the mathmatical analysis on it, I decided not to use it unless the price differential occurs, (which does occasionally), and they put a station closer to my home (I had to drive across town to find it).

As far as driveability, I noticed no difference at all. Started right up, idled fine, no early morning issues, but again, summer time use may be different than spring and fall. Performance on the merge lane was still okay, but its not like I ever put my 3 ton beast on the clock either.

I wouldn't call it a fad. E85 has been around for decades, it is just now with rising oil prices it has began to receive more visability.

[airfueleddie]

Thanks for the feedback man. I 'll post some pics of the shrtblock next week when I get to pick it up at the Indy Cylinder Head Trade show. Then I'll blueprint the compresion ratio with a burette and post my results. Then maybe you can help me figure out if this is gonna work with what ratio I have.

[HP2]

Plug you specs into this calculator. Cam timing, exhaust valve events in particular, as well as operating elevation have a big influence on how much compression you can get away with.

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm

[Jacksboys]

I am interested in see how this turns out with the Mega-Squirt

Do you plan to run the fuel injection timing off of the coil or something else?

[airfueleddie]

HP2, Thanks a lot! I'll be busy for a while!        JacksBoy, I am still in the planning stages but am thinking the bank fired MPI,(Port fuel injection) with possibly a EDIS or COP. www.dyiautotune.com has a nice pre-assembled Mega-Squirt II for 430.00. It has 1usec capability, COP, EDIS, SFI all are options you can utilize, WB O2, additional forced induction or nitrous timing programs, Flex-fuel,(E-85 capable with G.M Fuel composition sensor). My biggest "problem" will be the lack of intakes for a B Low deck. Richard Nedbals 400/500 he built for Kenny wayne Shepards Charger was edis, MPI, COP it made 619 Ft. lbs. and over 550 H.P. on pump premium (Cali. 91 Octane I think). Being a 'dry' intake, fuel distribution problems are a thing of the past so if the dual plane can flow enough air it should be no problem and still have high velocity. I am still researching what the Map sensor input would be for an engine that had the dual plane versus the single plane. Of course this would only effect open loop operations until the internal clock, coolant temp, and O2 has achieved warm up and is producing a steady voltage and the PCM achieves Closed Loop conditions and the O2 is the PCM's "enrichment/lean out data provider" Another obstacle is the E-85 parameters. With a approx. 10 to 1 ratio,(air/fuel), what would the fuel map look like and what are the 'basic settings" or parameters I would have to "plug" in the PCM for decent operation until I get some DATA from the PCM's datastream and freeze frame modes. Any ideas? Would individual EGT's on the head pipes help? Would a wide band Lambda,(Bosch), sensor be enough? I have a LM-1 meter kit and it's very nice and accurate. I used it test my Challengers Pro-Max billet metering blocks with Holley Jets on my six-pack instead of the fixed metering plate, it was easy to use and decently priced. Thanks, Eddie

[airfueleddie]

Check this mega squirted MoPar!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=974YsInWxhQ

         :biggrin:dig the throttle bodies!

[Jacksboys]

Check this mega squirted MoPar! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=974YsInWxhQ         :biggrin:dig the throttle bodies!

That looks like an interesting combination.



I do not know as much about Mega-Squirt as you do.  I have only done a little reading about it, but I know it looks like a cheap way to get fuel injection.  I wish I could help you more, but I would just be slowing you down at this point.

I think there is another member with Mega-Squirt, but I do not remeber his profile name.

Good luck with your combination.