2x3 subframe connectors

Author Topic: 2x3 subframe connectors  (Read 7195 times)

Offline cudazappa

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2x3 subframe connectors
« on: March 01, 2008 - 02:24:07 PM »
Ok all, I'm getting ready to install 2x3 .125" wall tubing into my challenger.  Does anyone have any helpful pictures or advice?  Yes I know I'm cutting into the floor.

I'm gonna jack the car up on all 4s (jackstands) and level the rocker panel to the garage, supported underneath the suspension (LCAs and Rear end)

I've got 1/8" plate for against the front subframe.  I'll drill holes in it for a rosette weld (like if it was a "bolt on" subframe connector)  I am curious what it looks like in the rear frame rails and how much it DOES intrude into the floor (but that's not really an issue...)
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Offline hemiken

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2008 - 06:40:02 PM »
It is a good idea to use box tubing for it's strength characteristics but have you considered notching out the section of the tubes so it does not come through the floor.  A little bit more work but a very clean and well excecuted finish that you can be proud of and still keep the structural integretry of the box tubing. :chatting:

Just a thought.... :2cents:
1970 Barracuda   (O^--^===|===^--^O)
1971 Barracuda   (O O {]{]{]|[}[}[} O O)
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Offline cudazappa

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2008 - 07:13:19 PM »
actually had a very interesting discussion about that with some road race buddies of mine.  After much deliberation, graphs, equations, pie charts, etc etc ad nauseum, the 2x3s through the floor were found to be the stiffest reinforcement.  I'll be running 1.24" torsion bars and an 8 pt bar w/ no rear seat so I'm much more interested in function
1971 Challenger - AutoX project
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Offline Devil

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2008 - 03:31:09 PM »
I think it is funny that you are making fun of this forum on another forum.

http://www.carjunkieforums.com/index.php?topic=2235.0

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93 RamCharger
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Offline Ornamental

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2008 - 05:42:12 PM »
Quote from: CudaZappa
Guess I pissed off some E-body owners yesterday
You did? Ok, let's see what angry words were written then:

It is a good idea to use box tubing for it's strength characteristics but have you considered notching out the section of the tubes so it does not come through the floor.  A little bit more work but a very clean and well excecuted finish that you can be proud of and still keep the structural integretry of the box tubing. :chatting:

Just a thought.... :2cents:
I never realised this could be interpreted as hemiken being pissed off.
Man, does hemiken hide his anger real good! I'd never guessed that "It is a good idea to use box tubing for it's strength characteristics" were the words of a angry number-nazi.

Or maybe it's me that's pissed off, because I don't post any pics of what you're looking for...?
Well, I would, if I had done this to my Chally, and had pictures of it.
Since I haven't, it's probably because I've been influenced by number-nazis like Oldschool, Stroker, KellysCuda Aircard, tactransman, and particularily those resto-crazy Goodman guys with their 110% stock E-bodies.
Yeah, that must be why... :screwy:



« Last Edit: March 02, 2008 - 05:47:16 PM by Ornamental »
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Offline thedodgeboys

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2008 - 05:58:49 PM »
WOW...

I guess if it takes over a day to respond someone gets upset... LOL

Ken had a good point about tying in the floor with out intruding into the inside of the car I dont think we knew you were making a racecar with no back seat.

So I was going to post pictures of my connectors and how I welded them in but they are under the car old style befor the diecut options were out in the marketplace.

Good luck please post pictures for us to enjoy.



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Offline hemiken

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2008 - 06:00:23 PM »
Here is a picture of a convertible with the box section running through the floor.

I do not know why i even bothered finding this picture for you, I do not care what you do with your car................ i take that back, as i do care and appreciate all forms of peoples use for their cars.  It would of been nice to know what purpose you had planned for the car.  I was under the impression you building a driving car and people in the back would be uncomfortable with the box running through where their feet would be.   If you wanted to build it as riggid as possible you would run the box section and then cap it or sleeve it with a piece that connects the front half of the box to the floor and plug weld the cap or sleeve to the box section aswell, aswell as opening your sills and fitting in thicker supports like a convertible has for extra riggidness.

Thanks for the link and heads up Devil :thumbsup:
1970 Barracuda   (O^--^===|===^--^O)
1971 Barracuda   (O O {]{]{]|[}[}[} O O)
1970 Challenger  (O O [======R/T=] O O)
1971 Challenger  (O O ===== ===== O O)
I pay homage to the best Mopars ever built.

Offline thedodgeboys

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2008 - 06:11:04 PM »
Hey Ken...Thats kicking charlie in the pan LOL
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Offline cudazappa

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2008 - 08:22:12 PM »
I apologize for actually angering you guys when I assumed that I already had and shot my mouth off.

hemiken, thank you for the picture.  Seriously.  As for letting people know what I have planned, I do have the li'l banner in my signature and this thread.

And I did search this site a couple times for subframe connectors but I just couldn't find any inside pictures, or anybody that had used this size stock.  But I ASSumed (me being the anatomical reference)

I still plan on waving the Mopar Flag at Local Events, and if y'all will let me, I'll still keep asking questions and posting here.
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2008 - 12:58:15 AM »
you haven`t bothered me , it is your car to do the way you want , personally I would do it differently if it was my car
 No biggy  :2thumbs:

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Offline HP2

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2008 - 10:43:50 AM »
I think it is more dependant upon what class you want to run in that is going to determine your subframe requirements than how much work or rigidity you want. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with all the subtleties of the SCCA classifications, but I seem to recall that if you run on some of their stock/street classes, ONLY bolt in connectors that do not cut the floor are allowed. If you are moving up the ladder to the prepared/modifed classes, then yes, you can cut the floor and weld in the connectors.

However, I've always had better results with reinforcing the rocker panel and then Xing the subs than using longitudal connectors. This is more along the lines of the oval track kit car program than merely connecting subframes like a drag racer.

I'd also suggest you forgo the 8 point bar and go with an 8 point cage that ties the vertical uprights into the A pillars and roof. Tie this in with some XV style shock tower supports and core support boxing and you have an excellent start on a solid chassis.

Also worth mentioning is adding gusset plates to the torsion bar anchors on both the body and the k-frame. That is a big bar your putting in there and you don't want it ripping the anchors out. While your at it with the welder, gusset the steering box mount as well. Boxing it in goes a long way to improving steering response by eliminating flex in the box mounts.

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2008 - 05:27:37 PM »
Mine are a custom type setup........

Offline drewcrane

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2008 - 08:47:20 PM »
I think it is more dependant upon what class you want to run in that is going to determine your subframe requirements than how much work or rigidity you want. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with all the subtleties of the SCCA classifications, but I seem to recall that if you run on some of their stock/street classes, ONLY bolt in connectors that do not cut the floor are allowed. If you are moving up the ladder to the prepared/modifed classes, then yes, you can cut the floor and weld in the connectors.

However, I've always had better results with reinforcing the rocker panel and then Xing the subs than using longitudal connectors. This is more along the lines of the oval track kit car program than merely connecting subframes like a drag racer.

I'd also suggest you forgo the 8 point bar and go with an 8 point cage that ties the vertical uprights into the A pillars and roof. Tie this in with some XV style shock tower supports and core support boxing and you have an excellent start on a solid chassis.

Also worth mentioning is adding gusset plates to the torsion bar anchors on both the body and the k-frame. That is a big bar your putting in there and you don't want it ripping the anchors out. While your at it with the welder, gusset the steering box mount as well. Boxing it in goes a long way to improving steering response by eliminating flex in the box mounts.
wow well put!

Offline cudazappa

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2008 - 10:04:13 PM »
The SCCA now allows welded connectors on all but Stock Class now for Solo Racing.  Anything through the floor puts the car into the Prepared category (CP for RWD Mopars).  Some other things I'm doing at this point, also put me there, even though this is being built as a "beginner" car where I can upgrade it as time and budget allow, but I'd like to get the foundation right first.

I've heard of the X design.  From a structural standpoint, I can see that it would be much stiffer.  Its also legal in CP (which at the national level have become full cage cars).  That cage of yours is a great idea.  Especially about tying in the XV fender supports (those and their radiator brace on my wish list).  I was thinking about running a horizontal bar behind the firewall tying the two together underneath the dash, and then two verticle bars tying them into the floor plates for the Roll Bar's down bars.  Yes, I was trying to avoid a full halo roll cage in this car, but maybe that's a better idea (it probably is, I just have to buy the add ons to make the bar kit a cage kit).  As for tying it into the body, I don't know if I want to go that far for fear of the challenger's future.

K and torsion bar gussetting, duly noted.  I knew the K would need some help, but I would've overlooked the x-member until later on when you all would see that classified ad looking for a new one.

BTW: between yesterday and today, got a bunch of tracer lines on the bottom of the car, haven't cut anything yet.  Got to remeasure the subframe depths and see what that's going to do to the notches.  (and HP2 I did see your other thread about using many jackstands or a frame jig, I wish I had the room for the jig, but I just ended up buying a couple more pairs of jackstands and going that way)
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Offline hemiken

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Re: 2x3 subframe connectors
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2008 - 07:11:40 AM »
I tried posting more pictures for you but my computer is on holidays apparently, so i am using my brothers computer and do not have a resize function on here. sorry.
1970 Barracuda   (O^--^===|===^--^O)
1971 Barracuda   (O O {]{]{]|[}[}[} O O)
1970 Challenger  (O O [======R/T=] O O)
1971 Challenger  (O O ===== ===== O O)
I pay homage to the best Mopars ever built.