Alternator Alignment

[moparmaniac59]

Well,
This really isn't an electrical question as it is more of a mechanical issue with an electrical component. I had posted in this section before on my gremlin issues with my car ("Ghost in the Machine" thread). I finally got the car running but have issues with the proper (belt) alignment with my alternator. I removed the now defunct air conditioning system. I purchased the non-A/C alternator brackets and pulley hubs for my '74 Challenger. I got the brackets & hubs from 440 Source. I am now on my 2nd set of brackets. It seems that when installed, that the alternator is angled in towards the block about maybe 15 -20 degrees. It is enough to cause the pulley hub on the alternator to not turn while the belt does. Not good (lots of smoke and squealing) . I tried to make the belt a little looser, but it still has the same problem.  :pullinghair:There is nothing wrong with the alternator as it will turn freely by itself. It is almost like the hole in the end of the mounting bracket is off about 1/2 a bolt hole causing the alternator to be angled. I wondered if it was maybe the alternator itself. I think it is a Duralast. Has anyone else had this problem? Is it the 440 Source brackets?? I am a little at a loss for what to do. I thought trying to get an OEM alternator bracket and see how it lines up, or opening up the hole, but that would cause the bracket to no longer be rigid (slop) and I'd be back with the same problem unless I had it welded up and redrilled, or try another brand of alternator?? Any suggestions??? I am puzzled!! Thanks!!

                                                          Matt B.

[GoodysGotaCuda]

Have you tried a shorter belt?Any pictures, im a picture person

[422STROKER]

Pics would help.  You may be able to change the spacers/add washers to get better alignment.

Tom

[Moparal]

Here's ashot that might help you. Does your water pump housing bracket look like this? Top right bolt, then a long spacer behind top alternator hole then the bottom bolt has a smaller spacer. This is correct pump housing and brackets for 69 70 71 dbl lowere pulley or single, then single top pulley. My alternator has 1 groove but some can have 2

[moparmaniac59]

I'll try to post some pics later today.  Adding/subtracting spacers wont help, as I have tried this. It just moves the alternator in or out, but doesn't change the angle due to the fact that the top (long) alternator bolt is the one that is mis-aligned. It is going in at an angle causing the alternator to not be on a true zero plane alignment with the fan pulley hub (it's cocked about maybe 15 degrees). It isn't much, but enough to cause the alternator to be cocked & lock up and not turn. I am thinking the only solution is to have the hole in the end of the bracket welded up and re-drilled about 1/2 hole over more towards the end. I don't know why this is. Maybe the hole in the block was drilled off just enough from the factory to cause this problem. I am going to fit up the brackets without the alternator and see just how far off the bolt hole actually is and I'll post my findings. Thanks guys for all the suggestions. My other problem is that I don't think there is enough meat on the end of the alternator bracket (for the top alternator bolt) to allow for re-drilling a new hole about 1/4 to 1/2 inch more over to the end?? I may need someone that can weld/fab up my bracket for me. 

                                                        Matt B.

[Moparal]

The bracket doesnt bolt to the block in any place. And there is 2 holes on the head.  If in the wrong hole , it would put the alt in the wrong angle.

[Super Blue 72]

Assuming that you have the right holes and right spacers and such and the top alt. bracket bolt is the issue, can't you just clamp a set of vise grips on there and bend the bracket a little, or am I not understanding the problem? 

Vise grips and a big hammer, my solution to many a problem. 

[moparmaniac59]

The bolt has to go in straight. Bending the bracket won't correct the problem, but would actually make it worse in this case. With the bolt going in at a small angle, no matter how small, it causes the alternator to be cocked. I'll get to the bottom of the actual degree of misalignment when I do a "mock" fitup without the alternator & I'll post some pics then!! I am the master of the "jerry-rig", but not with this car!! Thanks!!


                                                        Matt B.

[ntstlgl1970]

I'm wondering if the triangle shaped bracket is upside down or if maybe you have a odd ball water pump housing?? Here is a pic of mine when I was mocking up the alternator, maybe this will help identify the brackets/holes

[MEK-Dangerfield]

For what it's worth, the AC stuff is AWOL from my 440. The alternator belt is on the outside groove on the double pulley. With a single pulley alternator, I guess you are messing with the physics there. 


  Mike

[moparmaniac59]

OK,
After much fidgeting, I got it (the alternator) aligned as best as it's going to get. It's not perfect, but darn near it and runs fine.  :woo:I had a shim behind the fan pulley hub. I removed it and also did end up bending the end of the bracket like Super Blue had suggested. A little prying and pulling and shazam!! Got it. You can see it the pic below how off it was before I realigned everything. It doesn't look way out, but enough to cause a lock up. I ought to know as I've worked as a marine machinist for decades and align turbine driven equipment to within 0.005" of an inch; sometimes even less. A little misalignment on a turbine that spins over 10,000 rpm can wipe a bearing in short order!! Unfortunately this story doesn't have a happy ending (of sorts). I also had just installed a BRAND NEW set of Mopar Performance wrinkle black die cast aluminum valve covers. They look awesome.  Got the car started, was letting it warm up and charge the battery and had a couple of minor weeps on the valve covers. I took a 1/4 inch drive ratchet (nothing crazy) and was doing a hot torque on the valve covers. I took care of the weep on the driver's side, went to the pass side, was on the back bolt and heard a "pop". That was it, I cracked it. Anybody know where I can buy just ONE??? Oh well, I was happy to just have it running again, so I went up to the auto parts store to get a few small things and they all came out admiring the car (although it was smoking a little from the leaky valve cover) and wanted me to light em up. Man I haven't driven the car in like a month. I just couldn't resist. I pulled out on the street and stomped on the pedal, slid a little & listened to the pavement scream for mercy!! Man that felt good!! I feel better now!! I looked out the rear view and all I could see was open mouths!! 

                                                                 Matt B.

[422STROKER]

I fixed a cast valve cover a few years ago with JB weld.  Held as long as I had the car(2.5yrs)  I used a soft cork gasket held to the VC with some weatherstrip adhesive. No leaks, you have to clean the al real good and rough it up a bit with some sandpaper to give the JB smething to bite to.

Tom

BTW good job on the alt, it almost looks like you could tweak the bolt side just a bit more, but then the bolt would wobble on it's way out.

[moparmaniac59]

Thanks for that suggestion Tom. I hadn't thought of using JB weld. What have I got to loose?? I'll have to try that!! BTW, the pic is a "before" pic. It's much better now!! 



                                                             
                                                                 Matt B.

[422STROKER]

Yup give it a shot, use some 60 grit or so to rough it up and clean it really good.  And do not ighten the so much.LOL  Even double up the gaskets by glueing them together for some extra cushion.

Tom

[ShelbyDogg]

Your pulley alignment is still off.  That belt will pop off when you jump on it again. When you removed your A/C stuff.  Did you have a bracket bolted to the head that the top alternator bolt bolts to? That bracket has to come off, then your top bolt goes right into the head.  That bracket should not have needed any bending to make anything line up.

Rob