Geo-thermal home heating

Author Topic: Geo-thermal home heating  (Read 1183 times)

Offline JayBee

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
Geo-thermal home heating
« on: April 29, 2008 - 05:57:53 PM »
Yep, this is really an "Off Topic". Anyway, I have a 35+ year old oil burning furnace and am just looking at my options. I'm curious if anyone has a geo-thermal system installed in their homes, or know of someone, and can tell me a bit about it. Things like, how do you like it, how much did the hydro bill go up, how comfortable is the house and how long have you had it. I've heard rumor that once the heat is extracted from around the pipes you could be in for a cold winter. It would be nice to hear some first hand (or second) hand info about this technology.

John
John

1970 Barracuda convertible
2014 Toyota Avalon




Offline Hopalong

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1054
  • HEAD OFF! Apply directly to the neck line!
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2008 - 06:01:43 PM »
My parents have one and they like it alot.  Your water bill won't change because it is a closed loop system, and the stuff it uses is sorta like antifreeze.  I do know that it is not a "hot" heat like you  get from a gas or electric furnace.  It's not cold, but you will wear a sweater more often.  They also have an electric furnace that kick's in when the outside temp gets to about 25 degrees or so.  But it really cuts down on the gas bill!
{oo/===\oo}

Offline 1BADFISH™

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2805
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2008 - 06:27:51 PM »
I think its a great idea myself, I did a project on geothermal heating when I was in university. The nice thing about the system is it heats the house in the winter, then extracts the heat and cools the house in the summer.  You just reverse the cycle. You can also get some extra components to add to help with the heating when its really cold. Also if hooked in the cycle, I think you can cut back on your hot water heating bill, not sure how that part works though, i'd have to look back.

Dave
Charlottetown, PE
2014 GMC Sierra Crew Cab White Diamond edition.
1970 Dodge Challenger 340-6 4spd.
*Member Since* Oct 11, 2005

Offline MJS73

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1522
    • Mike's 1973 Challenger
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2008 - 06:30:57 PM »
As with a heat pump, if you are in a part of the country that has as much or more cold weather than warm, performance is less than ideal and the returns are very diminished.

Mike
www.mikes73.com
Don't PM me - send me an e-mail at mjsavage2001@yahoo.com


Offline MEK-Dangerfield

  • C-C.com Expert
  • ********
  • Posts: 20946
  • I don't get NO respect! Member since 1/25/2002
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2008 - 06:52:35 PM »
As with a heat pump, if you are in a part of the country that has as much or more cold weather than warm, performance is less than ideal and the returns are very diminished.

Mike

Don't even ask me about my heat(less) pump. It's like having AC 12 months of the year. I HATE it!!   :stomp:


  Mike

Mike

1970 Challenger - SOLD
2016 SXT+.  1 of 524 SXT+'s in Plumb-crazy for 2016.

Offline 1BADFISH™

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2805
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2008 - 06:57:08 PM »
Don't even ask me about my heat(less) pump. It's like having AC 12 months of the year. I HATE it!!   :stomp:


  Mike

Mike, your house has geothermal heating? A lot of people forget too that adapting a house with geothermal is never as good as building a house based on geothermal. These things work ideally with huge heat sinks and stuff. Geothermal in floor heating holds the heat a lot better, but you need a house built on a concrete slab.  Aside from the one project I did on it, I really don't know a whole lot.    :dunno:

Dave
Charlottetown, PE
2014 GMC Sierra Crew Cab White Diamond edition.
1970 Dodge Challenger 340-6 4spd.
*Member Since* Oct 11, 2005

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

  • C-C.com Expert
  • ********
  • Posts: 20946
  • I don't get NO respect! Member since 1/25/2002
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2008 - 07:00:33 PM »
Mike, your house has geothermal heating? A lot of people forget too that adapting a house with geothermal is never as good as building a house based on geothermal. These things work ideally with huge heat sinks and stuff. Geothermal in floor heating holds the heat a lot better, but you need a house built on a concrete slab.  Aside from the one project I did on it, I really don't know a whole lot.    :dunno:

No,

  I was just venting about my stupid heat pump.   :misbehaving:

If geothermal heat is anything like this, it's a BIG mistake.   :2cents:

Mike

1970 Challenger - SOLD
2016 SXT+.  1 of 524 SXT+'s in Plumb-crazy for 2016.

Offline RusTy/SE

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5456
  • Just havin' fun
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2008 - 08:19:25 PM »
For a time before i dove in head - wallet? - first on my car i was researching Geo-Thermal heating.

http://www.igshpa.okstate.edu/directory/directory.htm

« Last Edit: April 29, 2008 - 09:47:17 PM by onefornow »
Russ
2001 Durango     1B4HS
1970 Challenger  JS29U
Restoration thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=27173.0
Member since December 13, 2002

Offline snowdog

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 379
  • Thor-Our Belgian Tervuren-Member since 2006
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008 - 10:10:52 AM »
Well I live out in the country well and I have had Geo-Thermal Heating for the last 15 years in the house that I built.  It was installed from the start of building the house.  It is a pump and dump system (open loop), I live in Southeast Michigan so you can get away with that.  I would say if you live in a very cold area stay away from it.  When it gets around 0 degrees F, the system can't keep up and the large electric heating coil comes on and you electric bill goes up and up and up.  If your temp is the coldest of 20 to 30 degrees F then I might consider it.  I have a small wood stove (Vermont Casting) that I use during the real cold times to avoid the electric coil from coming on.  My total utility bills (I have only have electric) are about $2,000 to 2,200 a year, using the wood stove also.  This  is for a 2400 square foot house with lots of glass.  Oh, and that’s with the AC running all the time in the summer.  Also, that's on my own well, no city water.  Had to replace the well pump once, don't know if the Geo-Thermal had anything to do with that.

Hope this helps,
Snowdoggie
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008 - 10:00:50 AM by snowdog »
Scott (aka: snowdoggie) 1970 Challenger - 440 Modified - 4 Spd - White on Black - 1970 Cuda - 383 Magnum - 4 Spd - Drk. Green on Black - Howell, MI
See my "I'm gonna fix'm up someday" story at Cars in Barns.  **Dodge Main 76-78**
http://www.carsinbarns.com/Mopars%20In%20Barns/pg113mopar.htm

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008 - 11:37:15 AM »
I have a friend with it here & it keeps his house warm even in this climate , definatly a good option

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline JayBee

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008 - 07:14:48 PM »
Thanks for the replies. I'm starting to think it might not be worth it in an under insulated, 800 sq ft, 63 year old house, but the coin is still in the air. I'm not a sweater guy, like a "warm" heat, would hate to have the electric coil come on and the system does work on a heat pump technology. Just FYI, I got a qoute of $21,000.00 to install, the governments here poney up $7k in rebates, and then the $5k estimate for a hi-efficiency furnace making it about a $9k difference. There's much more research to do, thanks again for your inputs.

John
John

1970 Barracuda convertible
2014 Toyota Avalon

Offline jeryst

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2032
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2008 - 09:33:46 PM »
I checked into it, and it seems like a good deal, even here in PA. I'm no engineer but the concept seems pretty simple.

Liquid stored/circulated under the ground is always around 55 degrees. That 55 degree liquid goes through some type of compressor that bumps the temperature up even further, using properties of liquid that gets compressed/decompressed. This heated liquid is then run through a heat exchanger which warms the air that is deleivered into your home. If gets really cold, a backup heat source is used to help out.

The savings come in because of the difference. Lets say its 20 degrees out, and you like your thermostat set at 70. Your furnace has to constantly try to warm the 20 degree air to 70 degrees. But with the geothermal system, your getting 65 degree air at minimal cost, so the heating system only has to heat the air 5 degrees.

I've seen comparison charts where geothermal can save up to 75% over natural gas and electric, and 90% over propane.

Check around for different contractors. I talked with a couple of guys that quoted prices close to yours, then I found a guy with good references that charges around $12k. Does all the work himself except for the drilling, which he has a friend do. And he will just tie it into my existing system, so I already have the auxiliary heating system, and can always go back to it 100% if need be. With gas prices going up, I'm seriously considering it, because with what I'm spending now, vs what I will save, the system will pay for itself in less than 7 years, even faster if natural gas prices continue to rise. The only thing stopping me, is that we have talked about building a place, so we wouldnt be here long enough to get our money back. But if we build a place, I will definitely have it there.

I am like you, with an old house. Its a big old Victorian, built over 100 years ago, and is very drafty. If you havent done it already, get good windows, and attic insulation. I had new windows put in a couple of years ago, and had insulation blown into the attic floor, and my heating bills dropped by 60%. I got my money back in 2 years, which really surprised me. BTW, good windows dont have to cost an arm and a leg. I got mine through a place called Window World, which advertises full featured vinyl-clad windows (with screens) at $249 each, installed. I added the solar and gas options, and they were still only $300 each installed.

Offline HemiOrange70

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2062
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2008 - 10:39:12 PM »
Put the system in my pal's new home. 20k for the whole system. That included digging two wells. HE ahd to redo his new duct work as it wasn't effecient-but other than that it is cheap and warm

Offline JayBee

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2008 - 06:45:29 PM »
Keep the testimonials comin' if you got 'em. I really like to here stories like Snowdoggie's, someone that's lived with it for years.
 
The main level windows in my bungalow were all replaced this past April ($3k). Right now there's R22 in the attic which I'll be boosting to R40. It's a never ending battle trying to stay ahead of rising energy costs.
John

1970 Barracuda convertible
2014 Toyota Avalon

Offline jeryst

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2032
Re: Geo-thermal home heating
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2008 - 09:54:54 PM »
One fo the things I found out, is that the drilling of the wells is a major part of the cost. They drill a well for each "Ton" of air that your system needs to handle. I need a 4-ton system, so I would need to have 4 holes drilled. Most of the guys around here want $2k per hole. The cheaper guy that I got a quote from, said that his friend charges $1000 per hole, so that is a $4000 savings right there. He also does his own excavation work, and was willing to tie the system into my current system, further reducing the cost. The other guys contracted out the other excavation as well, and they insisted on adding their own auxiliary heating units to the system.

BTW, the cheaper guy told me that he put in a system for his son. He said that the house is very well insulated, and that his total annual heating/cooling cost is now around $400!