Author Topic: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks  (Read 2336 times)

Offline 70_challenger

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2008 - 10:53:26 AM »
Guess I just wanted to mostly vent, I'd like to see Chrysler get off their a**es and put hybrids, alternative burning (E85, biodiesel, etc.) vehicles on the market as well. Chrysler will NEVER be anything but a johnny come lately companyif they don't get with the program and start thinking to the future. Even GM and Ford offer alternatives to their customers. I am sure there are alot of loyal customers that want to buy from Chrysler but who also want to wean themselves, in one degree or another, from this never-ending oil nipple this country just seems to love :(

I don't know what it will take before we all wake up to this fact. Maybe $8.00/gallon?

I understand some of your frustration, but your argument is misdirected.  Chrysler does have some hybrids coming, as a result of their collaborations with other automakers.  Their position (which I agree with) has been that hybrids are a 'stop-gap' measure and that they should look at longer term solutions to fuel economy, like MDS, lightweight materials, diesels...

You argue that they should offer E85 compatibility...You ARE aware that alcohol fuels get worse fuel economy than gasoline, right?  There is less specific energy content in alcohol than gasoline, requiring more of it to be burned for the same power output.  But if you really like E85, you should be aware that Chrysler actually was a pioneer in adoption of the fuel - Their 3.3L minivan engines and 4.7L truck engines were compatible with E85 a long time ago, and many of their other engines are adopting it now.

If you made the argument that their small/midsize cars should offer a more fuel-efficient 4-cylinder, as well as a diesel option, I would agree with you.  Besides that, I don't see where Chrysler is behind anyone else.

-Tom




Offline 72hemi

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2008 - 11:18:04 AM »
The only place I see Chrysler behind is with the marketing. Everyone else is wasting their money saying how green they are, while Chrysler has been green for a while and is spending their money on more development.
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Offline 73Chally

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2008 - 11:47:11 AM »
You argue that they should offer E85 compatibility...You ARE aware that alcohol fuels get worse fuel economy than gasoline, right?  There is less specific energy content in alcohol than gasoline, requiring more of it to be burned for the same power output.  But if you really like E85, you should be aware that Chrysler actually was a pioneer in adoption of the fuel - Their 3.3L minivan engines and 4.7L truck engines were compatible with E85 a long time ago, and many of their other engines are adopting it now.

-Tom
Funny thing about E85.  I just heard a news report this morning that the government is looking at backing off the production requirements because it is making the price of food shoot up, because of the increased use of corn for E85 production.  Can you say, ooops.  :dupe:

Offline 72hemi

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2008 - 12:03:55 PM »
Big oops. What's funny is E85 can be made from all kinds of stuff not just corn. Brazil makes it from sugar for example.
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Offline 73Chally

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2008 - 12:31:06 PM »
Big oops. What's funny is E85 can be made from all kinds of stuff not just corn. Brazil makes it from sugar for example.
I saw that story, too.  It looks like they could corner the market on it.  Nothing like dumb arse  politicians to push the wrong route.

Offline KZ

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2008 - 01:11:36 PM »
Don't want this to get too out of hand, everyone has made excellent points, MY point was I'd like to see Chrysler et al. make more of an effort to give us, the consumers, some other fricking choices besides just gasoline/stinky diesel powered engines. Yes, some hybrids are on the market, now, and yes, some diesel engines are cleaner running, etc. but I remember the long gas lines of 1973, and the oil embargo, and I have to tell you, 35 yrs later and we are still in the same pathetic position as we were back then, at the mercy of oil. With all of our technology, this country should be out front leading the way to drastically reduce its dependence on foreign oil. At that time, Honda mostly, and now even Toyota, both of whom brought insight and forward-thinking, are now kicking the Big 3's butts for many many yrs now. The Toyota Prius has been on the market for how many yrs now? Don't give me the SOS about the F-150 being the best selling brand in America because that just doesn't cut it. For the farmers, construction folks, service folks that need these types of vehicles for work, fine. But for the rest of the folks using these types of gas-guzzlers (SUV,s etc)  for daily use, I have no sympathy for them. Especially when some TV reporter shoves a mike in their face when they are filling up and I have to hear them whine. I don't like Uncle Sam interfering with my life but I wouldn't mind the USGov't mandating that EVERY bus and EVERY taxi in EVERY US city must switch to hybrids or natural gas immediately. That is just one small step/one option of many that can be taken. I know, I know, you are already seeing a few of the bigger cities getting some of these vehicles, but far too few. Details can be worked out as to incentives/rebates to make up the price difference.

While not perfect, we are lucky enough to live in the best country in the world, freedom has no replacement, but we all make choices every day, and good or bad, those choices have consequences


Offline KZ

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2008 - 01:56:28 PM »
just for fun, here's an article on the Chrysler gas plan

AHEAD OF THE CURVE
Chrysler's timely, but misguided, incentive plan
By Shawn Langlois, MarketWatch
Last update: 7:01 p.m. EDT May 6, 2008

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- In fine Detroit fashion, Chrysler is looking to help ease the gasoline junkie's pain by cutting the cost of the fix.
The automaker, struggling to kick-start sales of its truck and SUV-heavy lineup, announced on Monday its latest sales pitch, dubbed "Let's Refuel America" -- an incentive plan that will cap gas prices at $2.99 a gallon for buyers of most Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep vehicles.
With oil increasingly looking like it might hit $200 a barrel this year, according to a forecast from Goldman Sachs, Chrysler is hoping desperate consumers will come running. But will they?
Chrysler points out that gas prices overwhelmingly top the list of concerns facing new car buyers. Anybody tuning in to monthly sales data knows that, as sales of pickups and SUVs continue to plunge while fuel-sipping sedans and crossovers are still moving off dealers' lots.
Since Chrysler relies more on those big, gas-quaffing vehicles than any other manufacturer, the brain trust over at owner Cerberus Capital Management figured it's time to act. Makes sense. After all, presidential hopeful John McCain must have followed similar logic when he came up with his plan to give drivers a "vacation" from federal gas taxes.
Unfortunately, the approach, and the message, illustrates why the Detroit Three have found themselves in this predicament in the first place. A near-term fix to a long-term problem.
CarsDirect.com analyst Mark McCready doubts that many consumers will opt for the deal, but he said that's not really the point. "The goal is to drive traffic and give consumers a clear message that 'now' is the time to buy. This should do just that," he said.
While Chrysler is giving customers an excuse to buy vehicles they may not otherwise want, the competition is focusing on making more vehicles they do. This has plagued domestic automakers for years as they continued to push their once highly-profitable SUV and truck lineup when a shift away from the costly segment was already underway.
Chrysler President Jim Press would have probably reacted to the plan with utter disbelief when he ran Toyota Motor Sales. Now, Press finds himself in Detroit, delivering the kind of marketing plan that might have gotten him bounced from Toyota.
"We are proud to introduce an unprecedented program to help put customers' minds at ease and do something to help working people who are worried about the volatility of fuel prices and vehicle cost of ownership," he said in the release.
No, this is not something Toyota has ever done, or, according to a spokesman, plans to do.
Even rival Ford Motor Co. (F:8.20, -0.07, -0.8%) , which has offered similar plans on a regional basis during gas price spikes in the past, said through a spokesman that it's more focused on improving fuel economy this time around and is not considering gas-card promotions.
As for Toyota (TM:) , the Japanese automaker is on pace to dethrone General Motors (GM:) as the world's biggest automaker thanks to its perception as the leader in quality, reliability and, of course, environmentally-friendly cars and trucks.
Chrysler can't buy that by bribing customers with cheaper gas. To be fair, Chrysler and its giant hedge fund owner seem to know this.
That's why Chrysler's "Let's Refuel America" press release included examples of the company's growing line of fuel-efficient vehicles: Two new hybrid SUVs this fall and a hybrid version of its flagship Dodge Ram pickup in 2010. Chrysler even threw in its support of the federal government's "dramatically increased" fuel economy standards.
But they also know they need to find a way to convince consumers to find their way to the nearest Chrysler dealership. It remains to be seen whether this gas subsidy will help.
Or if it will just serve as yet another of Detroit's many miscues.
Shawn Langlois is a reporter for MarketWatch, and the editor of its community message boards.

Offline NoMope Greg

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2008 - 02:18:44 PM »
Interesting article.

I can't believe the 'effin censor pulled the word "T W A T" out of "MarkeT W A Tch." and made it into "thingy."   :pullinghair: :screwy:
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Offline 72hemi

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2008 - 02:31:36 PM »
Dodge has a link on it on their website and they are excluding SRT vehicles from the program. What kind of BS is that. I kind of figured that they would exclude it, but they have provisions in the rules for purchasing plus and premium grade fuels, so why not include the SRT line up.
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craigsmytcudas

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2008 - 02:55:07 PM »
heres the deal honda toyota and chrysler all average the same gas milage v6 or 4 cyl engines. look at the hp ratings to compare with , displacement verses rpm and the 14.1 fuel burn is all you get . the hybred wont work in mass . im looking at a mini cooper im not kidding .i dont think we have a plan any closer than we did in 1973. also we are aprox 70 % salt water, electric cars in mass will kill us of in fifty years  :banghead:

Offline 72hemi

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2008 - 03:14:19 PM »
We are getting a Mini S for my fiance, cause great on gas and plenty of performance for her. FYI I've talked to a lot of people and the consensus is the standard mini is a turd that can't get out of its own way. I have driven it and have to agree. The price difference and the loss in fuel economy is worth upgrading to the S in my opinion.
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2008 - 09:15:47 PM »
Funny thing about E85.  I just heard a news report this morning that the government is looking at backing off the production requirements because it is making the price of food shoot up, because of the increased use of corn for E85 production.  Can you say, ooops.  :dupe:

Another funny thing I read is that it takes a lot of fossil fuel to produce E85, enough that it more than offsets the potential savings of using corn as an alternative fuel.
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Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Gimmicks, Gimmicks, Gimmicks
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2008 - 01:43:18 AM »



I think Chrysler maybe trying to stand strong and hope that the gas prices may ease and eventually fall down to reasonable prices. Maybe they don't want to go "mainstream" like the other big manufacturers or "sell out" to the smaller green Eco cars. Maybe they just want to keep the big gas guzzling reputation? Lots of maybes, who knows but I for one will continue to buy these gas guzzlers. I have a 2L Subaru that gets good gas mileage but it's of no concern to me, I have to pay either way and in the long run I don't really save enough. $2 a gallon of $57, nothing will keep me out of my Mopars. :2cents:

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